Stihl 046/460 D Jug. Are there benefits using it on a 460, or better using it on a Hybrid?

[drf256]

441 is quads right?

Transfer would be different

441 is quad and strato IIRC.

 

[drf256]

So it seems that there's little difference ported between the 2. The numbers stock matter more than the chamber size.

All things being equal, I prefer the round chamber for less compression. This model builds compression fast. The last one I did, with only 20 from the band and the Hemi chamber, is at 210-220 psi. I'd like less than that. I can't imagine what numbers a D jug woulda made.

How does only 14* of BD do when the stock restrictive muffler is opened? Does the saw still make torque?

 

[blsnelling]

Well if the factory changes port timing on the same model upgrading it to a magnum or super then I don't consider that stock, I consider it a mass produced ported saw.

I don't think those designations had anything to do with port timing.

 

[paragonbuilder]

That is a definite no, but I'm not sure about a 461 jug on a 441? Never had a 441 apart, but they are both quad port saws.

Careful Mike... when you say something cannot be done, @Chainsaw Jim is going to jump on it!

 

[MustangMike]

Well if the factory changes port timing on the same model upgrading it to a magnum or super then I don't consider that stock, I consider it a mass produced ported saw.

I can't speak for every model, but for the 046/460, that is just not the case. The early 046 & 066 magnums were so designated because they came with a dp muffler, and in the case of the 066 I believe it added approx 1/2 Hp.

The EPA soon banned the dp covers, and even made the makers reduce the size of the original muffler outlet hole. I believe this may have been why Stihl had to re design the combustion chamber in the 046/460 to produce less heat. You generally can not delete the base gasket on a 460 like you can on a 440 (all 044/440s had D chambers), and my stock round chamber 046 had 175 psi from the factory (but ran like a dog).

But Stihl had discovered that putting a "Magnum" sticker on the saw sold saws, so numerous saws got Magnum stickers that had absolutely no performance advantage. This was just slick marketing, and it worked. I have talked to people who sell used saws, and buyers want that Magnum sticker, cause they believe it will run better.

Ignorance is bliss!

 

[RI Chevy]

Lol. Too funny. They are gullible.

 

[big t double]

But Stihl had discovered that putting a "Magnum" sticker on the saw sold saws, so numerous saws got Magnum stickers that had absolutely no performance advantage. This was just slick marketing, and it worked. I have talked to people who sell used saws, and buyers want that Magnum sticker, cause they believe it will run better.

you're absolutely correct mustang....I overheard one of our salesmen on the floor the other day talking to a customer about the br600 and the br700...the guy almost didn't buy the br700 because it wasn't a "magnum"....those stickers are like voodoo.

 

[2stroke800]

you're absolutely correct mustang....I overheard one of our salesmen on the floor the other day talking to a customer about the br600 and the br700...the guy almost didn't buy the br700 because it wasn't a "magnum"....those stickers are like voodoo.

Yea i have always wondered why my br600 doesnt have the magnum sticker on it when the display model did. Wtf?!? Haha!!

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

I don't think those designations had anything to do with port timing.

Some do, most don't. I was pointing out the fact that factories have also hopped up saws and mass produced them that way while still selling the same model in original stock form, which in my opinion they're not stock anymore and mass production shouldn't change that fact.

I also wasn't trying to be brand specific on my comment. I know I used the word magnum but I also used super which covers a few brands.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

I can't speak for every model, but for the 046/460, that is just not the case. The early 046 & 066 magnums were so designated because they came with a dp muffler, and in the case of the 066 I believe it added approx 1/2 Hp.

The EPA soon banned the dp covers, and even made the makers reduce the size of the original muffler outlet hole. I believe this may have been why Stihl had to re design the combustion chamber in the 046/460 to produce less heat. You generally can not delete the base gasket on a 460 like you can on a 440 (all 044/440s had D chambers), and my stock round chamber 046 had 175 psi from the factory (but ran like a dog).

But Stihl had discovered that putting a "Magnum" sticker on the saw sold saws, so numerous saws got Magnum stickers that had absolutely no performance advantage. This was just slick marketing, and it worked. I have talked to people who sell used saws, and buyers want that Magnum sticker, cause they believe it will run better.

Ignorance is bliss!

And it wasn't too long after Dirty Harry made the .44 magnum so popular.

 

[MustangMike]

Which is really only 43 cal, but not as bad as a 38 which is .35!

 

[drf256]

So...

Got 16" of snow here, so after going into work for a short time and before plowing, I got some play time in.

I cut the band and base on 3 460 jugs. All 3 were Mahle and decomp.

The 2 D chambered jugs were different castings with different looking intake ports. The squish on both were identical, .030 with NO gasket. These two were machined for a friend here. I didn't time the jugs, but they needed .025 off the base to yield .010 chamber cut and .015 squish.

The non-D that I am porting myself had a .018 squish with NO gasket. Taking .010 out of the band and .008 off base gave me some pretty great starting numbers at 102/122/75. The intake part of the transfer opened first by nearly 4*.

This goes along with what Mike said above to some degree. The factory squish with gasket had to be over .050 with the D jugs and a gasket.

I'm liking the 460 hemi jug in this case.

 

[drf256]

Here's the stock round chamber

 

[mdavlee]

The 2 I've deleted gaskets one were .019 and .022" without gaskets.

 

[drf256]

Here's the D after the band cut for comparison.

 

[drf256]

The 2 I've deleted gaskets one were .019 and .022" without gaskets.

Right where I was and I checked a few times. I checked the D jugs twice on a 460 case and once on a 440 case because the member who sent them said he got 42 squish. I came in at 30-32 on the D's. so I intentionally left the squish tight for fine adjustment in his shop. He can add whatever gasket material he wants.

If you really examine the 2 cut chambers it appears the the Hemi chamber has better plug placement. Maybe the D has more squish velocity behind the plug?

The D has a larger band than the Hemi with the same amount of material removed.

 

[mdavlee]

The D may have more squish velocity. It does have more area. I hope to make one with a center plug this year and a toroidal chamber.

 

[Deets066]

D must have a wider squish to start then

 

[drf256]

D must have a wider squish to start then

Eyeballing it only, I'd bet 40% band/chamber on the Hemi and 60ish with the D.

Betting .010 more from the Hemi band woulda hit 50%

The Hemi has a perfect bell shaped chamber.

 

[jacob j.]

I haven't ported but maybe a couple saws in the last 6-9 months.

Slacker.