Stihl 046/460 D Jug. Are there benefits using it on a 460, or better using it on a Hybrid?

[blsnelling]

Brad, what is the SN on your saw (your Dad's former saw).

I'll have to check. It might be in a thread on AS too.

 

[blsnelling]

136333366

08/19/1997

 

[MustangMike]

I believe 046s began production in 1995 and converted to 460s in 2001.

Now you are going to make me check the SNs on all the 046 cases that I have!

 

[RI Chevy]

This is good info though Mike!
Great reference for all of us.

 

[blsnelling]

Found it. Dad's is 133908217, bought 08/31/1996, first month on the market, IIRC.

 

[MustangMike]

136333366

08/19/1997

OK, thanks! I knew it was still in the D range. Perhaps "first year" is when the magnums with dp covers were offered, thus making them run a little better.

 

[blsnelling]

It was primarily the port timing.

 

[MustangMike]

Wow, so being these are dates "sold" and not dates "manufactured", and your Dad's was a very, very early one, I may be a first year!

 

[MustangMike]

It was primarily the port timing.

What changed on the later jugs? Trying to get a clue as to what to look for. I know you have seen a lot more of these than I have.

However, I also think my very large muffler outlet hole is a good indicator of pre EPA interference.

 

[blsnelling]

The early ones have very short blowdown, like only 14°. @jacob j. knows this stuff better than me.

 

[blsnelling]

I find this reply from @jacob j. about dad's see over on AS.

He got one of the early, early ones. That was about a month after they hit the shelves or so. I bought two new ones for the Hotshot crew on 09/13.

 

[jacob j.]

Yep, that was when I was with the Forest Service. The local dealers had been taking pre-orders on those earlier in the summer.

We had been on a big fire all through August and burned up two of our 044s on that assignment. Those new 046s took their place.

 

[bulletpruf]

I have a clean one in the mail headed my way -- 147338452. My first 046. Anyone know what jug this one should have? Thanks

 

[Deets066]

I have a clean one in the mail headed my way -- 147338452. My first 046. Anyone know what jug this one should have? Thanks
View attachment 126778 View attachment 126779 View attachment 126780 View attachment 126781 View attachment 126782

I’d lay money that’s it’s 52 mm

 

[MustangMike]

Beautiful saw, but that jug S/B a Hemi, not a D. SN is way too late.

 

[MustangMike]

So, I did some comparisons of the old 046 to newer 046/460s, and learned a thing or 3.

First off, the old 046 Muffler has a very large 5/8" hole and NO BAFFLE, I did not realize that! The new muffs have a baffle and only a 5/16" hole, the area of the hole is night + day different, see the pics.

The comparison of the Mahle Hemi (H) and D jug led to some surprises (to me) also. Unfortunately, my pics do not show it clearly, but the squish band on the D jug is very thick, while the squish band on the H jug is very thin. So, never mind the shape, if you do not machine the jug, the D s/b more efficient.

However, the distance from the base to the squish band is 3/16" greater on the D jug than on the H jug, so the D jug is likely more compatible with a base gasket delete if you do not do any machining.

The ports all seem about the same in size + quality except for the intake. The sides of the D jug intake are flatter, but the H jug intake is wider (on the inside). However, on the outside, the H jug looks like the hole is not centered! Very disappointing for OEM.

When measuring from the base, the opening of the intake and the upper transfers seem to be about identical, but as Brad called it, the Exhaust on the H jug is higher (numerically lower). In measuring from the base, I get 1 + 27/32 for the H jug, and 1 + 3/4 for the D jug.

Unfortunately, a lot of my pics don't show what I was trying to show, but I'll post the ones that do.

 

[huskyboy]

So, I did some comparisons of the old 046 to newer 046/460s, and learned a thing or 3.

First off, the old 046 Muffler has a very large 5/8" hole and NO BAFFLE, I did not realize that! The new muffs have a baffle and only a 5/16" hole, the area of the hole is night + day different, see the pics.

The comparison of the Mahle Hemi (H) and D jug led to some surprises (to me) also. Unfortunately, my pics do not show it clearly, but the squish band on the D jug is very thick, while the squish band on the H jug is very thin. So, never mind the shape, if you do not machine the jug, the D s/b more efficient.

However, the distance from the base to the squish band is 3/16" greater on the D jug than on the H jug, so the D jug is likely more compatible with a base gasket delete if you do not do any machining.

The ports all seem about the same in size + quality except for the intake. The sides of the D jug intake are flatter, but the H jug intake is wider (on the inside). However, on the outside, the H jug looks like the hole is not centered! Very disappointing for OEM.

When measuring from the base, the opening of the intake and the upper transfers seem to be about identical, but as Brad called it, the Exhaust on the H jug is higher (numerically lower). In measuring from the base, I get 1 + 27/32 for the H jug, and 1 + 3/4 for the D jug.

Unfortunately, a lot of my pics don't show what I was trying to show, but I'll post the ones that do.

So the combustion chamber is smaller on the D jug?

 

[MustangMike]

A lot, the squish band is much thicker. Wish my pic of it came out, but you can't see it, not enough light. I may try again.

 

[MustangMike]

Jeff, this is the best I could do. 1st 2 are of the H jug, last pic of the D jug. The D squish band is at least twice as wide.

 

[RI Chevy]

Thanks Mike. Looks to me like the D jug would be able to handle more compression. Maybe even make more compression in stock form. Directs the fuel charge directly toward the plug. But I am no mechanic, just a layman.