Sometimes people absolutely suck!!

[trooney]

Not being confrontational, just saying.

 

[TJ the Chainsaw Mechanic]

I have you on ignore (the above post illustrates why), but after Ryan posted your drivel I feel compelled to respond.

Your attitude about women may have flown 80 years ago, but times have changed. I had a woman call me 3 weeks ago to see if I could order a non M-tronic 261. Seems her local dealer was not willing to try, I told her I could. She gave me her credit card info and I ordered the saw and called her when it came in. She drove and hour and 45 minutes to pick it up and was happy to get what she wanted.

Perhaps when you grow up and move away from Mommy you will better understand women.

You probably won't get this since you have me back on ignore no doubt. lol

But mainly I was referring to it being an 084. That is one heck of a saw....just surprised me. I could easily understand a 390. But an 084??? And to add to the fact that she complains through ebay a month later???? SO, where is my attitude actually bad???? I know of body builders....but I seriously doubt this was a body builder purchasing this 084. Probably would have enough brain to know what was wrong with the saw. The ones pictured above know what they are doing...and probably know you don't put straight gas in those. lol

 

[Ryan Browne]

You probably won't get this since you have me back on ignore no doubt. lol

But mainly I was referring to it being an 084. That is one heck of a saw....just surprised me. I could easily understand a 390. But an 084??? And to add to the fact that she complains through ebay a month later???? SO, where is my attitude actually bad???? I know of body builders....but I seriously doubt this was a body builder purchasing this 084. Probably would have enough brain to know what was wrong with the saw. The ones pictured above know what they are doing...and probably know you don't put straight gas in those. lol

The problem was that your post is what's called a "hasty generalization". It's a basic fallacy. Here's a link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

Are women generally less strong than men? Yes. Is the woman who purchased this saw capable of starting a Stihl 084? You have no fu¢king idea. To think that a woman couldn't start an 084 is a conclusion you reached hastily, without enough information. Are the women who compete in chainsaw races capable of running saws? Yes, obviously. Do they know about the type of fuel to use on a chainsaw? Probably, but really, who knows? Maybe they're just athletes who like loud noise. The guys who change tires in pit crew aren't chosen from ranks of mechanics, they're athletes who are then trained to change tires. Do they know the difference between a snap-on socket and a Pittsburgh socket? Probably, but maybe not. I don't know. You probably don't know either, but rather than say "you don't know", which is a hasty generalization, I added "probably" to account for the possibility that I'm wrong.

The point is that your post made it sound like women in general can't start big saws. That's a fallacy, and it's sexist.

Now onto this post, by bringing up the question of the amount of time that's elapsed, and suggesting that a body builder would know not to use straight gas, you're using a "red herring", another fallacy, which you can research by yourself. Guido and I aren't defending her actions. That's not the point of our posts. Bringing the argument around to that topic is the red herring. The point is, you made a post which was diminutive to women and we called you out. That's where your attitude was "actually bad".

 

[Nitehawk55]

I think Trooney said the woman was 63 years old . Honestly , I'm 61 and using an 084 would NOT be my 1st choice

 

[jakethesnake]

Most women can't handle that size saw lots of men don't have any business using it either. It's a bum ass deal is what it amounts to. Not whether a woman can or cannot run it. However seems strange to me that a woman bought a saw that size But maybe it was for her hubby or grandson or someone else that didn't know what the hell they were doing

 

[Ryan Browne]

Most women can't handle that size saw lots of men don't have any business using it either. It's a bum ass deal is what it amounts to. Not whether a woman can or cannot run it. However seems strange to me that a woman bought a saw that size But maybe it was for her hubby or grandson or someone else that didn't know what the hell they were doing

Right, exactly, we have no idea why the hell she bought it. Maybe to use, maybe for her hired hand to use. That's not the question. As I said earlier, I'm not defending her actions or the eBay/PayPal situation. The point is that when a woman wants to buy something, that's her right. It's not for us as men to say "what're you gonna do with that thing, now darlin'? No way a girl like you could run a saw like that, fire a gun like that, drive a motorcycle like that", etc.

Now, the seller of an exceptionally large saw like this might want to mention to ANY prospective buyer that it's a big saw not suited for general use. But, that's not dependent on their gender.

 

[Yukon Stihl]

Dallas, the only ones I know to authorize subpeonas is the law. I think a judge has to authorize them. Not sure. But I know they're not easy to get. Thats why Paypal is communist...no transparency. The buyer is always right and the seller has none. Common sense should tell them that after she had it a month that things could happen to anything. But their rules are made by yuppie, pinko slackers that don't have any common sense and can only regurgitate one thing...money. Feel sorry for slobs like that. I hope the fault line becomes active and wipes Silicone Valley and all its arrogance off the map. Won't hurt my feelings one bit. I was going to say California but there are many good people there, just not the executives of Paypal.

Sounds like our government hires from the same talent-less pool

 

[exSW]

Right, exactly, we have no idea why the hell she bought it. Maybe to use, maybe for her hired hand to use. That's not the question. As I said earlier, I'm not defending her actions or the eBay/PayPal situation. The point is that when a woman wants to buy something, that's her right. It's not for us as men to say "what're you gonna do with that thing, now darlin'? No way a girl like you could run a saw like that, fire a gun like that, drive a motorcycle like that", etc.

Now, the seller of an exceptionally large saw like this might want to mention to ANY prospective buyer that it's a big saw not suited for general use. But, that's not dependent on their gender.

Ah,here in lies the dilemma. I personally would never sell a high performance anything to someone I wasn't reasonably certain could handle it. Car,motorcycle,chainsaw ,firearm,horse you name it. A comeback like this is minor compared to what could happen.

 

[mdavlee]

Last saw I sold on ebay I put not returns since I can't see the fuel being used.

 

[Al Smith]

I don't sell on flea but I do buy .When I do so I assume something is wrong with it .As such I don't pay very much to begin with .

Besides all that it seems people are far more interested in paying way more that a praticular saw might be worth in my opinion .

 

[Ryan Browne]

Ah,here in lies the dilemma. I personally would never sell a high performance anything to someone I wasn't reasonably certain could handle it. Car,motorcycle,chainsaw ,firearm,horse you name it. A comeback like this is minor compared to what could happen.

I agree completely. My point is only that gender shouldn't figure in to the equation. If it does, it's discrimination.

Even with reasonable certainty, liability could be an issue. I suppose a bill of sale should take care of most of it, but I'm not a lawyer. Unless the buyer could show the seller was negligent it's not reasonable to think they're responsible for buyer's actions. I guess common sense doesn't always apply, though.

 

[exSW]

I agree completely. My point is only that gender shouldn't figure in to the equation. If it does, it's discrimination.

Even with reasonable certainty, liability could be an issue. I suppose a bill of sale should take care of most of it, but I'm not a lawyer. Unless the buyer could show the seller was negligent it's not reasonable to think they're responsible for buyer's actions. I guess common sense doesn't always apply, though.

Of course it's discrimination. Anytime you critically evaluate someone's capabilities and deny them something based on your judgement it's discrimination. But this isn't social work,affirmative action or quota filling. This is an individual transaction between two people with actionable consequences. When I was selling horses if I didn't think your skill level was sufficient to handle this horse you didn't get the horse.I'd rather deal with that case in court than wrongful death or disability.

 

[Ryan Browne]

Of course it's discrimination. Anytime you critically evaluate someone's capabilities and deny them something based on your judgement it's discrimination. But this isn't social work,affirmative action or quota filling. This is an individual transaction between two people with actionable consequences. When I was selling horses if I didn't think your skill level was sufficient to handle this horse you didn't get the horse.I'd rather deal with that case in court than wrongful death or disability.

Yes, you're right, discrimination isn't always bad. Heck, having discriminating taste is often a good thing. I should have said "discrimination based on gender," which in my opinion is a bad thing. I think it's unreasonable to make a judgement of someone's qualifications based solely on their gender. That's what I was trying to address.

 

[Al Smith]

Tell ya what women and saws .At the Paul Bunyan show a couple of years ago this gal missed a cut and put 4 in the cant before most of the rest did three .--with an 084.Further more my daughter who has a masters degree in marketing during one summer when she went to school drove a 5 axle dump truck--all 5 foot and 105 pounds of her .She can also run a bull dozer ,I taught her .Never judge a person because of their size and gender .

 

[Ryan Browne]

And this may sound Mean, but what does woman think she is doing by purchasing an 084????? She probably couldn't even Pull start the dern thing!

This is the comment that got under my skin. This kid ain't even 18 and he's making statements like this based on gender bias. I'm not trying to be a dick to TJ, but hopefully guys like Guido and I and others here can correct his misconceptions as part of his transition to adulthood.

 

[trooney]

Last saw I sold on ebay I put not returns since I can't see the fuel being used.

I did too Mike. Didn"t matter much in the long run.

 

[mdavlee]

I did too Mike. Didn"t matter much in the long run.

I put in the description if you bid you accepted no return policy.

 

[Definitive Dave]

Putting NO RETURNS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES in your auction MEANS NOTHING!!

Read that 20 times slow and let it sink in.

I will say this again, by agreeing to sell on Ebay you are guaranteeing that everything is as described and pictured and interpreted by any stranger bidding.
What you put in the auction regarding returns is total moot.

The ONLY WAY TO WIN A CASE against a crooked buyer is to
1.) meticulously document everything about your item.
1a.) make sure your listing shows the terms under which you accept returns as - in same condition as sent, with no adjustments or modifications (or as new in for sale as new condition)
2.)only communicate through the Ebay messaging center (everything both of you say is part of the official record that way).
3.) Accept any/all returns
4.) inspect the item returned and meticulously document any changes, damage, etc.
5.) ask Ebay to step in because the item is not in the same condition as when you sent it.
6.) when Ebay asks for the value of the damage, have an answer you can back up through a third party (another dealer estimate, etc.)

Always be polite and write messages to buyers and Ebay with a cool head, if you act like a dick just once you will probably lose the case no matter what.
Ask Ebay for help, this places them in the position to WANT to help you.
Take the time to jump through the hoops Ebay provides, be patient and send them all the pics, videos and explanation you can to make it obvious they buyer is trying to steal from you.

Dave

 

[trooney]

I put in the description if you bid you accepted no return policy.

I wish I had it to do all over again!! lol There are a bunch of good suggestions on here. seeing as I'm a firewood hack who likes to tinker with saws, I don"t think I'll ever sell a whole saw on Ebay anymore. Parts, yes. Its just not worth it to me anymore. I have a few people who ask me what I've got to sell, just don't need anything as big as an 084. I'll sell it when its back together, just not on Ebay. My wifes happy I took all my information off of PayPal!! Just left 1 CC just in case. Talking to Paypal I came away with the feeling that anything goes as far as the buyers concerned. When I called when I first got the notice the Paypal representative told me what was going to happen. The situation is accepted, I'll just be a buyer from here on in. One things for certain I won't be the last. I can't really fault the lady because I dont know her intentions and have no control over her situation, what she does or doesnt believe, just like I have no control over opinions expressed on this site. I do have control over my actions, beliefs, and how honest I am. If somebody does me bad, after I let out my frustration and think about the situation, I usually walk away never to deal with that person (or entity) again. A prime example was my 2004 Road King. Dealt with this guy for 20 years. Had him put on brakelines and the mechanic put on too big of a T down by the front fender. Went over some railroad tracks, put a nice dent in my newly painted fender. Went back to him, he fixed the T, said nothing about the fender. I didn't say a thing but got on my scooter and rode away. That was the last time I saw the dude. Spent alot of money with him too. Now somebody else gets my money. Still spending the same, just people or businesses that earned my trust. Just like anything else, life goes on. I deal with death on almost a daily basis, this is miniscule when compared to what could befall me. I've made some friends on this site who I know are honest and trustworthy to a T. Thats the kind of people whose opinions really matter in my life, as I know we've got each others backs. Maybe next time, if there is a next time, I'll talk to one of them and see what they do to protect themselves.

 

[Wolverine]

I put in the description if you bid you accepted no return policy.

Dave's right, it doesn't matter if you do that or not. They force you to refund money for the "defective" item and you accept their/that policy by agreeing to the terms of use.