Connection/running Issues 560xp

[Teewhy]

Hi Gents,

A few months back I took my 560 to the local dealer to get it flashed so I could check the hours etc as I got it second hand from my father in law and wanted to see how much work she’d done, as I was due to get very busy.

To cut a long story short the dealer couldn’t get his unit to communicate with the saw at all, it worked on other saws but he couldn’t get a peep from mine.
I thought it was strange but didn’t think much of it and set her to work for a good while, keeping an eye on fuel and oil quality, keeping the filters clean and so on.

Cut to this week and it just wouldn’t start one morning, was on the money the day before but now wouldn’t even cough.

Spark was strong, I checked whether I’d missed the cough and flooded it, fuel was getting into the cylinder no problem, but not even a whisper, air box was clean too. No idea what happened.
Pulled the carb and muffler when I got back and the piston looks clean as a whistle, hardly a mark on her, plenty of compression too at least using the ‘arm gauge’.

I don’t have much autotune experience, but I’ve lurked on here long enough to know that they can decide to kick off seemingly out of the blue.

So my question is, should I try another dealer to see if they can get connected?
If they can’t will I need another ‘brain box’ or carb for it?

Thanks in advance lads, sorry for the massive post.
Take care

 

[hacskaroly]

I don’t have much autotune experience, but I’ve lurked on here long enough to know that they can decide to kick off seemingly out of the blue.

The store I worked at didn't have the dongle and computer to check these saws, but another local one did. I heard from several customers that they would be cutting or go to start and the saw would not. They took it in, got it hooked up and were told "it needed a firmware upgrade". I think that is the simple answer, I don't think they need a "firmware upgrade". When these saws decide to quit, from what I understand is that they detected something out of the normal and shut down to prevent a catastrophe. When you take your saw into the shop, and they can't find any issue, they may re-flash the firmware and that may clear the fault code preventing the start/run and then the saw runs fine after that.

If the dealer (or another dealer) cannot link to the saw, then I believe you have to get a new carb, I don't think they sell the "brain part" separately, I looked at getting a new carb for a 562 and it was about $120...since it isn't my saw, I didn't get it. I hope this helps!

 

[Quzick]

If Its a mk1 saw , u might check the coil-carburettor connection Under the coil and flywheel. Some times Under that heatshrinktube is dirt with moisture and that f*ck's with you. Or flywheel has eaten through wire's protection plastic.

 

[Brad Button]

I know this is going to sound too simple, but you said it is getting fuel. Could the needle in the carb be staying open and flooding the engine? Have you tried clearing the cylinder and holding the throttle wide open when cranking? Just a thought.

 

[Teewhy]

The store I worked at didn't have the dongle and computer to check these saws, but another local one did. I heard from several customers that they would be cutting or go to start and the saw would not. They took it in, got it hooked up and were told "it needed a firmware upgrade". I think that is the simple answer, I don't think they need a "firmware upgrade". When these saws decide to quit, from what I understand is that they detected something out of the normal and shut down to prevent a catastrophe. When you take your saw into the shop, and they can't find any issue, they may re-flash the firmware and that may clear the fault code preventing the start/run and then the saw runs fine after that.

If the dealer (or another dealer) cannot link to the saw, then I believe you have to get a new carb, I don't think they sell the "brain part" separately, I looked at getting a new carb for a 562 and it was about $120...since it isn't my saw, I didn't get it. I hope this helps!

That’s interesting, I’m hoping for a simple solution naturally, but it’s handy to know how things might play out if I do need to take it further.
It’s an excellent saw and has given no issues whatsoever until now, here’s hoping I can get it back on its feet.
Thanks for that info @hacskaroly

 

[Teewhy]

If Its a mk1 saw , u might check the coil-carburettor connection Under the coil and flywheel. Some times Under that heatshrinktube is dirt with moisture and that f*ck's with you. Or flywheel has eaten through wire's protection plastic.

Yeah it’s Mk1, I’m away for a week currently but I’ll look into that when I get back, it would be sweet if it’s that simple. I’ve had the flywheel off when stripping/cleaning recently but you never know.
Thanks @Quzick

 

[Teewhy]

I know this is going to sound too simple, but you said it is getting fuel. Could the needle in the carb be staying open and flooding the engine? Have you tried clearing the cylinder and holding the throttle wide open when cranking? Just a thought.

Ahh that’s a fair point, I did every field repair trick I could think of except for that, it just felt like I’d left the coil disconnected and tried to start it, there was literally no response, but I’ll try that too when it’s back together
Thanks @Brad Button

I’ll keep this thread updated for the next guy when I know more

 

[Teewhy]

If Its a mk1 saw , u might check the coil-carburettor connection Under the coil and flywheel. Some times Under that heatshrinktube is dirt with moisture and that f*ck's with you. Or flywheel has eaten through wire's protection plastic.

Apologies for the delay in reply lads I was running a course this week and my mind was elsewhere, I stripped the 560 down last Friday to getting it working for this course.
Here’s what I found… nothing of note

Cable under the Flywheel looked as good as new, as did all the cables and connectors heading to the carb and plug.

The carb itself looks brand new, not a spec in the screen, diaphragms were perfect and everything looks as clean as a whistle, no build up whatsoever.

 

[Teewhy]

I know this is going to sound too simple, but you said it is getting fuel. Could the needle in the carb be staying open and flooding the engine? Have you tried clearing the cylinder and holding the throttle wide open when cranking? Just a thought.

This trick however, bought the saw to life finally, I don’t know whether I’d unstuck the needle when I was cleaning and checking it out (I didn’t see anything).
But after reassembly and cranking it with the throttle open she coughed to life
She ran a little cranky so I set it to one side to run for while to get everything moving and she seemed to be solid after that.
Fast forward to Wednesday this week and she was giving fierce trouble to start, so I’ve definitely not won the war yet.
I ran I different saw for the rest of the week, and it’s looking like heading to a different dealer is the only choice

Thanks for all your help gents, again I’ll repost when I know more

 

[Teewhy]

I’ve just had a thought, I’ve recently started running Sta-bil fuel stabiliser in my saws due to the high ethanol fuel here in Ireland.

Could that be messing me up? I’m probably around 15 litres into using it, primarily on the saw in question.

Thanks in advance

 

[SimonHS]

Try the field reset procedure, now that it is running again.

Also, make absolutely sure that you haven't got an air leak anywhere. The autotune will compensate for as long as it can, but eventually the cylinder and piston will be damaged.

 

[Stump Shot]

If run issue persists and fuel delivery is suspect, it can be checked as follows. First, check the fuel filter visually and if it looks dirty, it is, change it. Next, remove the fuel supply line from the carburetor and pressure test the carburetor to 7 PSI or .5 bar. Then either with replaced line or some other similar line pinch off the supply side line so it is sealed up tight. Remove the primer line and pull a light vacuum, this will teat that the little flapper valves are sealing, again only a light vacuum is required and should be held. If either of these test's leaks down that is a failure and your carburetor needs to be repaired/rebuilt/replaced. If it passes both, then move on to pressure/vacuum test of the crankcase. Only the slowest of leak downs is marginally acceptable to be not the problem, but in my opinion even though this isn't your culprit, should be dealt with now before it becomes an issue later. The exhaust screen should be checked for carbon obstruction as well as a complete assessment of the piston cylinder condition with a compression test and visual inspection with a bore scope or top end removal if necessary.
This will find the run issues found with these saws that a computer can't tell you.
Remember to check the easiest things first and work your way into the saw from the outside in as it could be just as easy as dumping the fuel and replacing with a new supply.
Also to note, there's no need to automatically blame a computer processor that doesn't exist in the saw. The autotune system is relatively simple and its main function is to tune the carburetor/saw, which is extremely rare not to do. It is however unfortunate, to be the whipping boy for every bad seal, broken bearing, damaged piston and failed carburetor that comes along.
Hope this is of some help.

 

[hacskaroly]

It is however unfortunate, to be the whipping boy for every bad seal, broken bearing, damaged piston and failed carburetor that comes along.

I also hear it is autotune's fault for the exterior of the saw getting dirty during use...