Simington / Silvey Square Chain Grinders Tips/Tricks/Secrets

[Bryan Marks]

I’ve take the wheel off prob 15 times today to check stuff. I need to put a dial indicator on the shaft. I’ll be in the shop Sunday.

I might be being to precise. Like I said I have not ground chain yet but I have a mechanical brain. If I had to guess the arbor is 2 thou. Out of round and the under side of the wheel at the end where you index the tooth is prob 10 thou. Up and down when the wheel slows down. The top corner of the wheel that indexes on the cutter tooth looks to be perfect on the plastic guide that the chain sits in. I’ve done a bunch of measuring back and forth and it seems to be good from side to side on night and depth. Has anyone measured the run out in the bottom of there wheel towards the tip of the wheel?

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Each time the stone is removed and replaced, there will need to be some trueing with the dressers.

 

[Hinerman]

Ya only one wheel. I have a dial indicator at Work which I will check. I think the arbor is not running true. I’ll check when I go back to work Sunday but I took a slow-mo video and the shaft in my opinion is not running true. I would say on the wheel’s edge it’s 20-25 thou wobble. But it looks like the arm is true from side to side when I test it with dial calipers. I think I need to grind some chain and see how it goes. I’m at my house with no saw chain to test but the wheel is definitely wobbly. I used a marker anchored to the base under the wheel and it marked on the low side of the wheel it that makes sense. The pic is the “low side”

that’s hard cuz if it’s not running true it’s hard to tell on the shift it compounds the farther you get away from the center of the shaft. But from what I can tell with out an dial indicator it is slightly wobbly. If Im anchoring something to the housing and hold it to the shaft it does seem to be not running true. I can hear and feel it clicking if you know what I mean. How true are they supposed to be? There is that big silver ring with the threads attached to the shaft coming out of the motor. That is what I’m indexing on what the wheel touches. That seems to be not running true. It’s slight but like I said it compound at the end of the wheel 4/5 inches away from the shaft.

Is the wheel on upside down or is it just the lighting?

 

[pbillyi69]

take the wheel off and check the arbor flange and see if it is true. sometimes wheel are off a little and maybe it is the shaft of the motor itself the only what to know is to measure. the tolerance of the motor itself is way more than i hoped it was. i called saw creek and talked to Kelly about it and he said he has seen the shaft of a brand new motor be up to .005 off which would be quite a bit off on the wheel. i was chasing the same thing and found that i had a flange that was off a little and a stone that was off a little when you turned it on the whole thing would shake pretty good

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Wobbly wheel @ 2:17 in video
http://simingtonchaingrinder.com/2013/what-can-go-wrong/

 

[Philbert]

I have seen ‘wobbly arbors’ on cheap (under $100) grinders, but would not expect that on a $1,000+ grinder.

Philbert

 

[pbillyi69]

i wouldnt expect it either simington had cast aluminum arbor flanges for a while and some of them werent at spec the are supposed to come with machined ones now maybe he got an older one that was sitting on a shelf. my guess is that there is just a defect with the stone or something between the stone and the flange

 

[Woodpecker]

I had a problem with this when I got my Simington. After talking with Madsen’s they lead me to believe it was most likely the wheel. It helps to dress the wheel every time you pull it off the arbor. The relationship between wheel and arbor is such(too much play as a necessity because of the wheels) that there will be wobble if you don’t.

I did talk to Kelly about it after Madsen’s and he did say they used to have a bigger problem with them when it was a cast piece but haven’t had much trouble now that it’s machined. He did say if I wasn’t happy he’d send me a box to send it to him and he’d make it right.
In short, like @Duane(Pa) said, if you pull the wheel and put it back on and there is wobble then you will need to give it a light dressing.

 

[pbillyi69]

yep what woodpecker said

 

[wcorey]

To figure if the wobble is the wheel or the arbor, find the high (or low) spot, mark the spot on each, then rotate the wheel 180 degrees on the arbor and find the high spot again.
If it followed the wheel, it's the wheel, if it followed the arbor, it's the arbor...

 

[srcarr52]

I might be being to precise. Like I said I have not ground chain yet but I have a mechanical brain. If I had to guess the arbor is 2 thou. Out of round and the under side of the wheel at the end where you index the tooth is prob 10 thou. Up and down when the wheel slows down. The top corner of the wheel that indexes on the cutter tooth looks to be perfect on the plastic guide that the chain sits in. I’ve done a bunch of measuring back and forth and it seems to be good from side to side on night and depth. Has anyone measured the run out in the bottom of there wheel towards the tip of the wheel?

0.010" at the wheel edge isn't bad, they are a pressed stone so you have to expect some run out. I usually put a sharpie mark on the wheel and arbor where I get the best run out so I always put it back on right if I have to take it off. Then I take a dressing brick to the bottom to knock the high spot off. The rest gets trued up with the dressers or it's a surface that doesn't matter.

 

[Bryan Marks]

Ok so I figured it all out. I took it apart and cleaned the face of the arbor. I polished it as the machine ran I also honed the big flat washer that goes on the other side of the wheel. I thru a indicator on the arbor and it had about 1 thou of run out. I thought that’s not bad. I reassembled the machine surfaced the wheel and it’s dead on. That’s what I’m working with. Please critique that grind. What it would be good for. ie- to sharp etc. I need to have a good work chain for cutting timber. Thanks!

 

[pbillyi69]

that tooth looks great it will cut pretty good. you will be happy with that. im guessing that is about the middle setting on the slide and the factory setting on the dressers

 

[Bryan Marks]

Those are the setting that came stock and the arm setting in running to not grind into the tie strap.

 

[RI Chevy]

Nice cutter there!

 

[srcarr52]

Ok so I figured it all out. I took it apart and cleaned the face of the arbor. I polished it as the machine ran I also honed the big flat washer that goes on the other side of the wheel. I thru a indicator on the arbor and it had about 1 thou of run out. I thought that’s not bad. I reassembled the machine surfaced the wheel and it’s dead on. That’s what I’m working with. Please critique that grind. What it would be good for. ie- to sharp etc. I need to have a good work chain for cutting timber. Thanks!

Looks decent, depending on the wood you might want to change the side plate to have a slight forward lean, around 5 deg. Your underside angle looks aggressive so it should still pull in well. If you want a chain to last a little longer make that angle steeper.

 

[Bryan Marks]

Looks decent, depending on the wood you might want to change the side plate to have a slight forward lean, around 5 deg. Your underside angle looks aggressive so it should still pull in well. If you want a chain to last a little longer make that angle steeper.

you mean less aggressive under my top plate? I did change the angle on the top of the wheel to more like 18* it was like 14/15 degree.

 

[Dolkitafreak]

you mean less aggressive under my top plate? I did change the angle on the top of the wheel to more like 18* it was like 14/15 degree.

Top plate looks nice there but side plate needs some lean imo. Almost back leaning there. They won’t feed well like that and once the edge is even slightly rounded they stop cutting, I prefer a good amount of lean and just leaving rakers a fuzz higher.

 

[srcarr52]

you mean less aggressive under my top plate? I did change the angle on the top of the wheel to more like 18* it was like 14/15 degree.

The up/down angle (side plate) needs to have a slight forward lean to self feed. Too much and the cutting tips dulls easy but somewhere in the 0-5 deg forward lean angle is the sweet spot.

 

[Bryan Marks]

Thanks for the tips. I will adjust the side plate to have a slight forward cant.