FarmerTec 660 "Kit" - What's the latest on quality?

[Wanab]

Oops!

 

[Jason628]

Way to go. You broke it.

 

[Duce]

Stihl's parts prices don't make sense. Some super simple parts are $50, similar, more complex parts are $20, some may be just $5. You can't compare size and complexity to price when it comes to Stihl parts, but they are much better quality than chinese stuff. Still hard to argue with a $200 large saw that will get lots of work done.

Maybe less expensive Stihl parts are from Qingdao, China plant.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

Stihl's parts prices don't make sense. Some super simple parts are $50, similar, more complex parts are $20, some may be just $5. You can't compare size and complexity to price when it comes to Stihl parts, but they are much better quality than chinese stuff. Still hard to argue with a $200 large saw that will get lots of work done.

From what I have seen on here these large saws are costing more than $200 and are using lots of substitute OEM or AM parts of higher quality to get work done. Even then, some posters that seem to have made quality builds have had failures that at the same rate on OEM saw would put the company out of business. Some posters that have done multiple kits have thrown in the towel so to speak. The 660 seems the best kit.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

More on failures:

Two of the big bore Asian 440s I built failed in the hands of a friend of mine. He was running Stihl oil at 50:1. I built him a 3rd and told him to only run it on Amsoil Saber at 40:1. He has run the 3rd saw far more than he had run the other 2 and it is still going fine. (Note: I had run both saws quite a bit w/o any problems before my friend got them to fail)

My thoughts (which may or may not be correct):

1) A big bore puts more stress on the bottom end than a regular bore as the piston is heavier.

2) The aftermarket bearings are not quite as hard as OEM, but with proper lubrication they will do just fine.

I cannot prove that my conclusions are correct, but they make sense to me, and if my solutions work, I don't really care!

So...if the top ends had not been built up then the saws may have held up? Just put in the lightest piston? There are only a top end and a bottom end on a saw...and one of them seems to be failing. The cases on this thread of failure seem to be on saws with built up top ends and not on 660s. Eventually I will throw my 440 kit together all FT with very minor upgrades and see what it does. I re read this thread and too many people, including yourself, have had failures after time and money put into these kits. It is not worth trying to make a racehorse out of a donkey!

 

[Wanab]

The 2 660's I just put together only had the wrist pin bearing and pin as well as the rings upgraded. I didn't see the need for more. I would say most of the failures in these saws are related to AF piston and cylinder kits and not the factory Huztl parts.

 

[MustangMike]

I know the OEM 460 pistons are lighter than the AM ones, and it is likely the same for the 440 pistons. So, a OEM piston will likely give you the smoothest operation and best durability, but they are expensive.

If you have to run better oil at a better ration to have a big bore kit work, I'll take that exchange (I run the better oil/ration any way). Any time you improve the performance of any engine you should run be best lubrication possible.

IMO, the value of the kits is an economical way to learn saw building and porting, and a good resource to bring dead saws back to life that would not be worth bringing back to life with OEM parts. Tank handles are one of the best examples of this, and the plastics.

One of my hybrids has AM case and bearings, but OEM crank, cylinder and piston. No problems so far,

Around here, 044 and 440 parts are very hard to come by compared to 460s and 461s.

The other problem with the 440 kits is the carbs are not adequate for the big bore kits, and OEM carbs are not cheap!

Bottom line, if you have a good OEM 066/660 cylinder you can buy a Meteor piston and a kit and end up with a darn nice saw.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

With the complete af saw only costing about 20.00$-40.00 more ,I like them a little bit more.
I haven't had a major part fail yet ,and some cylinders have been pretty hideous!
Sometimes I think that there may be parts in the kit saw box which might give the normal line assembler trouble ,so they end up in a kit.
Make no mistake about it though, if you can understand elementary 2 stroke performance you can make some serious power with aftermarket piston and cylinder kits, if you don't want to get grease on your fingers go to the dealerships and pay for that convenience.

This is one of the worst bb kits I've ever seen, but keeps getting stronger, mostly it wears a 34" Oregon light bar.

 

[eric4]

Greetings!

I just snagged a g660 for $200 assembled, and wanted to go through a few mods/upgrades/replacement parts that I plan to do to the saw. The main purpose of the saw will be for alaskan milling large Ponderosa Pine and Canyon Live Oak that have fallen on our property.

We probably have enough dead trees to justify an actual mill, instead of a chainsaw mill, but I can't currently budget that. This is where the g660 comes into play!

I've never built or modified a saw, but this sounds like the right platform to jump into the experience. From my readings, there are a few parts that are worth replacing even before running the saw for the first time. It also sounds like chainsaw milling is especially hard on equipment, so a properly tuned saw is paramount.

None of the items below, I've purchased yet. Looking for some advice before checking out my cart with everything.

Currently these are my prioritized items:
OEM Intake rubber boot/manifold
OEM Husqvarna Decomp Valve
OEM Fuel and Impulse rubber lines
OEM Piston pin bearing
OEM Piston retaining clips
NGK Spark plug
Muffler mod (currently looking at the Dukes Saw dual port with spark screens)

Lower priority:
Skid Plate
OEM Fuel and Oil cap o-rings
OEM Chain Tensioner
Upgraded air filter?
Webber carb (if tuning is a challenge)

A few accessories:
Digital Tach for tuning purposes
Welding wire for checking squish
permatex blue threadlocker
permatex high temp threadlocker for muffler
threebond 1184 for gasket delete
Amsoil Saber
Some type of vaccum testing setup?


Anticipated Milling Setup:
Chinese Chainsaw Mill 36" (can it take a 42" bar?)
42" Forester bar, but not sure what chain to run yet...
Some type of DIY auxilary oiler, plus maybe modifying the stock oiler, or purchasing the high-flow oiler from farmertech

If anyone can provide some insignt/input on the build, I'm all ears. Looking to balance budget with practicality, as I'd rather spend my time cutting, than trying to tune the machine.

Cheers,
Eric

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Looks like you got most of it covered, but don't use welding wire . Soft solder .030- .060 sizes for checking squish.
3/8ths chain will do.
Im not sure that there's a weber carb that fits that saw, walbro yes.

 

[MustangMike]

I've built several 660s and have only had a problem with one carb, and was able to fix it (fuel lever was adjusted wrong).

OEM piston is great, but expensive. Meteor is a lot less and the same quality/durability.

I like to run square file chain for milling, if you can get the hang of sharpening it, it works the best. I also drop the rakers a bit extra for milling as it will not self feed the same on the end grain. Milling hardwood, the chains go dull fast, it should do better with softwood.

You can print your own degree wheel and learn a bit of saw porting. Widening the Exhaust, and lowering and or widening the intake can make a big difference. Also, adjusting the squish to about .020 - .025 is a good idea. I've done a lot of milling with my Asian 660s w/o any problems. My favorite #s for a 660 are 97 Ex, 120 Trans, 82 Intake.

The filter that comes on the saw will work well but will have to be cleaned often. A Max Flow filter will give much longer run time, but are a PITA to clean.

Run Amsoil Saber or Dominator at 40:1.

I've not had any problems running the mufflers that come with the kit even though they are not screened. If the cylinder is stock, I drill a 1/2 hole in the back of the baffle. If I port the cylinder, I remove the baffle. A timing advance can also help a lot (.020-.030 off the key.

 

[MustangMike]

FYI, I have not had trouble using the rubber parts provided with the kits. They are not as good as OEM, but I have not had failures (aside from a few defective parts IDed off the bat).

 

[eric4]

Looks like you got most of it covered, but don't use welding wire . Soft solder .030- .060 sizes for checking squish.
3/8ths chain will do.
Im not sure that there's a weber carb that fits that saw, walbro yes.

Thanks for the recommendations and correction on the carb and solder! So you'd use a 3/8 for a longer ripping bar as well? That would be convenient, allowing me to grab a 24" bar and chain to compliment my dad's 460 rancher 24" and share chains. I had assumed a thinner chain would be better for wider slab cuts, but I'm sure tooth sharpness and geometry are just as important.

I've built several 660s and have only had a problem with one carb, and was able to fix it (fuel lever was adjusted wrong).

OEM piston is great, but expensive. Meteor is a lot less and the same quality/durability.

I like to run square file chain for milling, if you can get the hang of sharpening it, it works the best. I also drop the rakers a bit extra for milling as it will not self feed the same on the end grain. Milling hardwood, the chains go dull fast, it should do better with softwood.

You can print your own degree wheel and learn a bit of saw porting. Widening the Exhaust, and lowering and or widening the intake can make a big difference. Also, adjusting the squish to about .020 - .025 is a good idea. I've done a lot of milling with my Asian 660s w/o any problems. My favorite #s for a 660 are 97 Ex, 120 Trans, 82 Intake.

The filter that comes on the saw will work well but will have to be cleaned often. A Max Flow filter will give much longer run time, but are a PITA to clean.

Run Amsoil Saber or Dominator at 40:1.

I've not had any problems running the mufflers that come with the kit even though they are not screened. If the cylinder is stock, I drill a 1/2 hole in the back of the baffle. If I port the cylinder, I remove the baffle. A timing advance can also help a lot (.020-.030 off the key.

Would you throw in a Meteor before running the stock piston, if you were in my position? Looks like a piston kit with caber rings is around $45 bucks...not bad. Is this piston for a performance boost? Or just an increase of reliability?

Other than a degree wheel, and the grinding bits, is there much more equipment needed to do a good job porting and timing advance?

Sounds like I can save $ on the rubber bits, air filter, and carb to invest it in a piston and port job!

Thanks for the help, everyone!

 

[Wanab]

Thanks for the recommendations and correction on the carb and solder! So you'd use a 3/8 for a longer ripping bar as well? That would be convenient, allowing me to grab a 24" bar and chain to compliment my dad's 460 rancher 24" and share chains. I had assumed a thinner chain would be better for wider slab cuts, but I'm sure tooth sharpness and geometry are just as important.



Would you throw in a Meteor before running the stock piston, if you were in my position? Looks like a piston kit with caber rings is around $45 bucks...not bad. Is this piston for a performance boost? Or just an increase of reliability?

The meteor piston gets you very little over the Farmertec. Nothing wrong with the stock piston, when somebody builds a work saw strong enough to break it let me know. Caber rings are 10 bucks and the saw comes with an NGK.

Being a used saw changing to a Meteor piston kit will assure a fresh saw.

 

[Jason628]

Most of the farmertec stuff is serviceable with some minor polishing. Some speak of wrist pin bearing failure but, I've never actually seen it happen. OEM is not very expensive so, I guess it's just cheap insurance. Cylinders can be ran with just some port chamfering to reduce the risk of snagging a ring but, should be modified if you want to make power. The FT piston is very heavy compared to others. I can feel a noticeable difference between the hyway popup and the FT. The FT chain tensioners work okay. Mainly the issue lies with a kit saw being built the casting needs to be corrected so the tensioner functions correctly. If you are concerned about rubber parts degrading just run non ethanol fuel and you shouldn't have an issue. I mix fuel for my saws and bikes and stuff so, I always run non E fuel. Having torn a part many a carburetor damaged from sitting with ethanol fuel in it I highly recommend using it in anything that may not get used for an extended period of time like generators, saws, motorcycles, trimmers, mowers etc. Play at your own risk. Quality is inconsistent so your mileage may vary.

 

[Wanab]

The FT piston is very heavy compared to others. I can feel a noticeable difference between the hyway popup and the FT.

On my scale the Hyway weighed over 5 grams more. I am sure it's much lighter than the Meteor.

 

[MustangMike]

No performance gain with the Meteor, other than maybe longer term.

In my experience, cylinders (that are properly chamfered) rarely fail, the first thing to wear out on a saw that is used hard are the rings and piston skirts, especially the intake skirt. When it wears, you will start to lose power.

The Meteor piston is reasonably priced, comes with Caber rings, and will hold up longer than a FT piston.

If you are ripping the saw down for other reasons, I would put one in. Otherwise, you can run it like it is until you notice a decline in power (which may be a long time depending on the hours used and oil/ratio used).

Doing the transfer ports correctly generally requires a right-angle grinder, which is expensive. Also, if your cylinder needs machining, you need a metal lathe. I don't have either, but good increases can be made by checking port timing and deleting the base gasket (when appropriate) and modifying the intake and exhaust with a grinder. HF sells a decent one with a foot pedal for about $50. I work outside and C clamp the cylinder to my wood trailer (with wood on both sides).

 

[MustangMike]

So you'd use a 3/8 for a longer ripping bar as well?

If using round file, narrow kerf chain will cut faster, but not sure I would want to run it on a 36" bar (used it on a 20" bar with the Beam Machine).

Stihl narrow kerf is ONLY available through Logisol. You CAN NOT get it at a Stihl dealer.

I prefer square file for everything.

Generally, when I mill, I set up two 660s with 36" bars so when one dulls I just go to the other. Milling wide (over 22") hardwood is tough on chains. I'll often switch saws after 4 - 7.5' cuts. After 8 cuts, my back is done for the day.

 

[MustangMike]

Check your fuel often, you don't want to have to re fuel in the middle of a cut!

 

[Jason628]

On my scale the Hyway weighed over 5 grams more. I am sure it's much lighter than the Meteor.

Yeah I'll have to get a scale. Maybe I'm just crazy but the FT felt heavier than the popup. Idk maybe I'm just smoking rope haha.