What is the point of a 70cc saw…

[Catbuster]

I was just makin’ conversation. I weighed the 2166, 7900, and 288 tonight since they all didn’t have bars on them. 15lb, 16lb, 17lb ish.
I figured for me why run the 2166 when I have the 7900 that will pull more bar. But yeah she’s thirsty, probably not USFS approved, and parts may become an issue.

The idea was kinda why build or run a 70cc when the same weight/chassis will support 80?

No feelings here man, I’m just an engineer and this, for better or worse, is how most of us communicate in writing.

The thing is that most of those saws won’t with a long service life. Let’s look at Stihl. If they wanted the 044 to be nearly 80 ccs in displacement they probably would have. However, they probably figured out that the bottom ends and cases wouldn’t survive, so we got the 046. I’m sure there’s somebody out there with a hybrid reading this that’s ready to scream bloody murder, but I doubt a hybrid would have taken the beating my 046 took from sometime in the 1990s to earlier this year while I had it.

Husqvarna could have gone with more displacement with the 372, and did with some of the early XPW models, but they were still only 74.7 (I think? Somewhere around 75) but if I had to guess I’d still say they thought the bottom end wouldn’t take it.

The PS-7900 is an interesting beast. Dolmar did some things to lighten that saw that aren’t quite as stout as Stihl or Husqvarna’s offerings in the same class, and they got a saw with more displacement than the average saw in its weight range. That’s fine.

Stihl’s saws carried more fuel than Dolmar’s, the intake setups and carb boxes are different. Stihl had a different design, moreso thought out for durability and serviceability when they built their first almost-80cc saw and Dolmar built a Thoroughbred comparing something like the 046 to the 7900. Let’s face it, most of the people on this board don’t exactly thrash their saws, they’re enthusiasts or firewood cutters. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But when the thoroughbred thinking comes to play, especially when long bars are put on these saws, it doesn’t always work out. Stihl’s already made major changes to the 462, based primarily, as best I can come up with, around long bar use in the western US & Canada. The 572 was built primarily that way with the stout bottom end for that reason, it was testing in Canada for almost five years before it came out.

 

[Woodslasher]

No feelings here man, I’m just an engineer and this, for better or worse, is how most of us communicate in writing.

The thing is that most of those saws won’t with a long service life. Let’s look at Stihl. If they wanted the 044 to be nearly 80 ccs in displacement they probably would have. However, they probably figured out that the bottom ends and cases wouldn’t survive, so we got the 046. I’m sure there’s somebody out there with a hybrid reading this that’s ready to scream bloody murder, but I doubt a hybrid would have taken the beating my 046 took from sometime in the 1990s to earlier this year while I had it.

Husqvarna could have gone with more displacement with the 372, and did with some of the early XPW models, but they were still only 74.7 (I think? Somewhere around 75) but if I had to guess I’d still say they thought the bottom end wouldn’t take it.

The PS-7900 is an interesting beast. Dolmar did some things to lighten that saw that aren’t quite as stout as Stihl or Husqvarna’s offerings in the same class, and they got a saw with more displacement than the average saw in its weight range. That’s fine.

Stihl’s saws carried more fuel than Dolmar’s, the intake setups and carb boxes are different. Stihl had a different design, moreso thought out for durability and serviceability when they built their first almost-80cc saw and Dolmar built a Thoroughbred comparing something like the 046 to the 7900. Let’s face it, most of the people on this board don’t exactly thrash their saws, they’re enthusiasts or firewood cutters. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But when the thoroughbred thinking comes to play, especially when long bars are put on these saws, it doesn’t always work out. Stihl’s already made major changes to the 462, based primarily, as best I can come up with, around long bar use in the western US & Canada. The 572 was built primarily that way with the stout bottom end for that reason, it was testing in Canada for almost five years before it came out.

You've summed up my feelings pretty well, and yes, the XPW is 75cc's. I will add this, the x-torque piston is heavier than the XPW slug so I don't think the bottom-end strength led to the demise of the 75cc option. I'd guess unique cylinder/piston/ring sizing and limited demand were bigger factors in Husqvarna's decision to nix that model.

 

[Duce]

The only point to any size or brand. They cut trees into sizeable pieces.

 

[Duce]

You've summed up my feelings pretty well, and yes, the XPW is 75cc's. I will add this, the x-torque piston is heavier than the XPW slug so I don't think the bottom-end strength led to the demise of the 75cc option. I'd guess unique cylinder/piston/ring sizing and limited demand were bigger factors in Husqvarna's decision to nix that model.

I think it was because there was no advantage over stock for stock 72cc offering. In stock form 375 was slower than 372 from what I owned. Have a ported 372, but never a ported 375, so cannot comment on those.

 

[Normzilla]

I am loving my Stumpshot 572.

 

[whitesnake]

I think it was because there was no advantage over stock for stock 72cc offering. In stock form 375 was slower than 372 from what I owned. Have a ported 372, but never a ported 375, so cannot comment on those.

Same, I was curious what the ported difference is. Kevin did one (xpw) recently and put up a video and looked pretty spicy. But curious how far off a ported OE would be?

 

[huskihl]

Same, I was curious what the ported difference is. Kevin did one (xpw) recently and put up a video and looked pretty spicy. But curious how far off a ported OE would be?

Depends on how it’s ported. I have several hours into opening up those xpw transfer tunnels to try and gain enough flow to utilize the rwj carburetor.

 

[Catbuster]

I think it was because there was no advantage over stock for stock 72cc offering. In stock form 375 was slower than 372 from what I owned. Have a ported 372, but never a ported 375, so cannot comment on those.

Jasha Reynolds (Tree Sling’r) ported a 75cc 372 back in the day and it was a better runner than his ported MS 460. That would have been a winner. See below…

Still, stock for stock the MS 460 was the winner for its time. The MS 461 was an improvement still for a timber faller running longer bars. And I maintain, most people run stock saws…

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Jasha Reynolds (Tree Sling’r) ported a 75cc 372 back in the day and it was a better runner than his ported MS 460. That would have been a winner. See below…

Still, stock for stock the MS 460 was the winner for its time. The MS 461 was an improvement still for a timber faller running longer bars. And I maintain, most people run stock saws…

I maintain that most people don't clean their dam saws! I digress, but if you have 1 1/2 lbs of saw cake under the covers power to weight doesn't matter.
Crank case volume aside I believe that most non professional builders and myself look at top end options when rebuilding a smoked saw . Its nice to put a 034 Super on a regular 034 or similar situation and get some extra snap for your effort. The pro's can take the original smaller cylinder and get it to preform just as well ( if not better) as the original version.

 

[whitesnake]

Jasha Reynolds (Tree Sling’r) ported a 75cc 372 back in the day and it was a better runner than his ported MS 460. That would have been a winner. See below…

Still, stock for stock the MS 460 was the winner for its time. The MS 461 was an improvement still for a timber faller running longer bars. And I maintain, most people run stock saws…

That hurts my ported 460’s feelings lol

 

[bulletpruf]

A 70cc saw is a solid addition to any 2/3/4/5/100 saw plan.

On that note, I'm a big fan of the 044. Have a 10mm that I've gone through that wears a 24" bar but I've got a 28" for it for when I run into bigger stuff. Need to source an 064 or 066 to bridge the gap between 044 and 076.

 

[rocketnorton]

066 here

056m2 came here yesterday, too
selling that one for friend

 

[Ford3000]

I don't get this threads topic.

Isn't the 7900 THE 70cc saw to own being on the brink of 80cc?
Her sibling the 7300 has noticeably better fuel economy without missing out much on the 7900's power.
Both saws handle a 36" bar very well, they feature minor in cut characteristics.

This threads topic is similar to asking what the purpose of a 56cc saw is when there are 50cc and 60cc saws.
I am referring to the PS-550/EA5600 compared to the PS-5105/EA5000 and PS-6100/EA6100.
Between the three I keep grabbing my PS-550.


A complete AV mount set for the 7k Dolmar series is just 15€uro.
I only broke two cylinder AV springs on mine so far.

Yep, the only real issue with Dolmar / Makita is they stopped making
gas / petrol saws.

 

[Wilhelm]

Yep, the only real issue with Dolmar / Makita is they stopped making
gas / petrol saws.

Get spares to last You Your lifetime, that is what I am doing anyways.

 

[justoldsaws]

I have a few 80cc saws, a few 281xp, 288, jonsereds 80, while I like running them my go to saw is a stock 572xp, good power, great av, excellent fuel consumption and reliability.
My 80cc saws have barely had a run since getting the 572.

 

[Ford3000]

Get spares to last You Your lifetime, that is what I am doing anyways.

I tried that Wilhelm, I followed a few threads where people wanted case seals for the EA4300, nightmare, they changed them along the way too to confuse matters more, I sold my Two after that. There are parts for the bigger saws in the 79xx range, not so sure if the 55 cc saw will have much parts availability, as it was quite new, there won't be many around to scrounge off, and I have every faith in Makita Dolmar to not have a stock of parts available as they are no longer producing gas saws, money is all that matters to them, and keeping parts and dealer access to those parts available is simply not worth it to them.

 

[Wilhelm]

I tried that Wilhelm, I followed a few threads where people wanted case seals for the EA4300, nightmare, they changed them along the way too to confuse matters more, I sold my Two after that. There are parts for the bigger saws in the 79xx range, not so sure if the 55 cc saw will have much parts availability, as it was quite new, there won't be many around to scrounge off, and I have every faith in Makita Dolmar to not have a stock of parts available as they are no longer producing gas saws, money is all that matters to them, and keeping parts and dealer access to those parts available is simply not worth it to them.

New parts availability is already severely impaired - unfortunately!

 

[davidwyby]

When you have a machine shop, there is always a way. @Wilhelm


@justoldsaws yeah after some recent testing, I think my 6100 and 2166 are gonna be getting more of the work.

 

[KingCobra98]

New parts availability is already severely impaired - unfortunately!

I sold all my Makita stuff for that reason.

 

[Wilhelm]

I sold all my Makita stuff for that reason.

I am doing the opposite, stocking up on saws and parts while reducing bucking jobs for others.
I would like to think I have enough saws to last my lifetime, but I am always ready to jump on another deal and increase my herd.