So what's the current two stroke oil favorite?

[WCfirewoodguy]

I bought Amsoil Saber at my local Napa and the counter parts guy made sure to tell me it was synthetic! It's not real oil, in other words. Kind of like they sell it but they don't really believe in it.... I live in North Bend WA, lot's of big douglas fir trees, and they are always wet for 9 months out of the year it seems like. I have'nt opened it yet, so am wondering if I should exchange it for some "real oil!" Lol...

It wasn't that big of a purchase, maybe like 12-14$ for a quart of it. Says right on there it's Synthetic!

They always give me kind of wierd looks when I buy German oil for my VW TDI, so I have been going to a different store for that oil, in Issaquah WA. Still is a Napa and they know all those "other guys" up the hill where I live at in North Bend. A guy at the Issaquah store did a gasket delete on his 372xp and he went on and on for about 15 minutes about Permatex, and compression, the guys in North Bend vs the Issaquah store....

It's kind of a hoot actually, hope they aren't members here or I'll be paying higher prices if they figure it out! You get better pricing if you don't dress up, go in there looking like you just pulled a transmission or something and need some parts and Gear Oil... then ask about the chainsaw oil sort of as an aside conversation... Just my theory anyways. My brother always says "Any oil is better than no Oil!" As I have blown up a few motors in my day... I was using Lucas oil at around 50:1 when I was trying to cut through a limb last year and the 372xpw just froze up and shut down.

Now I have a new OEM crankcase I got from someone on the other site, a new Gilardoni Piston/Cylinder kit, MityVac, Carb kit, new rubber parts, but the one thing I don't have that I really want now is just a plain old oil can for assembly!

Found this one on Amazon for 25$ just to show you guys what I am talking about... I don't want to mess the saw up after spending all that money on new parts! But still not going to pay 25$ for an oil can!

 

[WCfirewoodguy]

I bet they have one at my local Napa store cheaper than 25$... And I can put some synthetic oil in there as well.

 

[Duce]

I bought Amsoil Saber at my local Napa and the counter parts guy made sure to tell me it was synthetic! It's not real oil, in other words. Kind of like they sell it but they don't really believe in it.... I live in North Bend WA, lot's of big douglas fir trees, and they are always wet for 9 months out of the year it seems like. I have'nt opened it yet, so am wondering if I should exchange it for some "real oil!" Lol...

It wasn't that big of a purchase, maybe like 12-14$ for a quart of it. Says right on there it's Synthetic!

They always give me kind of wierd looks when I buy German oil for my VW TDI, so I have been going to a different store for that oil, in Issaquah WA. Still is a Napa and they know all those "other guys" up the hill where I live at in North Bend. A guy at the Issaquah store did a gasket delete on his 372xp and he went on and on for about 15 minutes about Permatex, and compression, the guys in North Bend vs the Issaquah store....

It's kind of a hoot actually, hope they aren't members here or I'll be paying higher prices if they figure it out! You get better pricing if you don't dress up, go in there looking like you just pulled a transmission or something and need some parts and Gear Oil... then ask about the chainsaw oil sort of as an aside conversation... Just my theory anyways. My brother always says "Any oil is better than no Oil!" As I have blown up a few motors in my day... I was using Lucas oil at around 50:1 when I was trying to cut through a limb last year and the 372xpw just froze up and shut down.

Now I have a new OEM crankcase I got from someone on the other site, a new Gilardoni Piston/Cylinder kit, MityVac, Carb kit, new rubber parts, but the one thing I don't have that I really want now is just a plain old oil can for assembly!

Found this one on Amazon for 25$ just to show you guys what I am talking about... I don't want to mess the saw up after spending all that money on new parts! But still not going to pay 25$ for an oil can! View attachment 415145

If you research synthetic oil, I believe you will find most start from crude oil or another petroleum base.

 

[Woodsman]

I agree.
Some oils work better than others at leaner ratios. Red armor at 50:1 is likely enough for any saw with the amount it leaves behind. There are other oils that are known for not leaving anything behind in the case at 50:1. I’m not entirely certain if it’s the viscosity or if there are a few oils like red armor that inherently leave lots of oil behind

How does Red Armor compare to the likes of Saber, Dominator, Honda HP2 and Motul 710 2T for engine protection and carbon fouling or lack there of?

 

[Mastermind]

How does Red Armor compare to the likes of Saber, Dominator, Honda HP2 and Motul 710 2T for engine protection and carbon fouling or lack there of?

It's oily.....it does oil stuff. LOL

Plainly, I've been reading about oil for too many years. I need to check out.

 

[WCfirewoodguy]

How does Red Armor compare to the likes of Saber, Dominator, Honda HP2 and Motul 710 2T for engine protection and carbon fouling or lack there of?

Here's a link to more Oil information then you ever wanted to know about! https://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html

 

[Woodsman]

Here's a link to more Oil information then you ever wanted to know about! https://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html

Thank you

 

[Al Smith]

Currently I have a supply of Briggs and Stratton branded oil which I highly doubt if B and S actually made it .Menards had it on sale in 4 oz bottles .The right amount to mix 1 gallon of gasoline at 32 to 1 ratio . Evidently it works because I haven't cooked an engine yet .

 

[WCfirewoodguy]

So here's an excerpt from that link where he talks about Saber oil, notice the "BS" terminology ! I especially enjoyed this section of the write up...(See where I underlined the text...) I'm still reading this and trying to make sense out of it, how it applies to my chainsaw, etc...



Recommendations from Maxima Oil Company
I commend Maxima for making this info available. Most manufacturers don't make any info available to help people better pinpoint the fuel/oil ratio they need. But still you can see that the range they list is still leaving you to guess at the best ratio for your engine. Also it looks like these ratios apply to mineral oils since their extreme use ratios are around 20:1. Synthetic oils have extreme ratios above 35:1 so this list is not for the more popular synthetic oils.

Engine size	infrequently wide open throttle	motocross/enduro/ cross country	mostly WOT use road racing, track racing
50cc-125cc	50-60:1	25-32:1	20-25:1
125cc-250cc	50-60:1	32-40:1	20-32:1
250cc +	50-60:1	40:1	25-32:1

I asked Tim Schaeffer the representative of Maxima Oils: "how would you rate these oils for a small displacement air cooled street bike that sometimes has long high RPM runs on the highway?"

He replied: "Given the operating conditions I would rate these oils in this order: Castor 927, Formula K2, Super M, Premium 2, Scooter Pro."

So he favors formulas with castor above everything else and then goes by the % of synthetic oil in each. The more synthetic, the better the high RPM protection. Also I found that generally he rates them according to their 200*C viscosity which is a combination of the viscosity index and the 100*C viscosity values.

Contrast the above recommended ratios to the most common lie by some lazy and stupid oil manufacturers so plainly expressed in this online quote by AMSoil: "Because one mix ratio satisfies multiple pieces of equipment, Saber Professional eliminates mix ratio confusion." *B-S....! There's at least 6 different factors affecting what the fuel/oil ratio should be. Ratio confusion exists because they have never fully investigated this subject. Due to their irresponsibility I'll bet that 90% of the bikes in use are using too much or too little oil.

Less Oil Needed	More Oil Needed
low RPM	high RPM
water cooled	air cooled
high viscosity	low viscosity
little WOT time	much WOT time
gas w/o ethanol	gas with ethanol
low ambient temp	high ambient temp

- - - -
Ethanol containing gasoline ideally should never be used in a 2 stroke engine since the alcohol dries out the crank seals and causes them to have their lifespan drastically reduced if they aren't alcohol resistant. Also the alcohol doesn't immediately vaporize when it contacts the cylinder wall and so it dilutes the oil there, making it less effective at protecting the rings. To find sources of ethanol free fuel, go to this site -> http://pure-gas.org If you have to use it then use only 10% alcohol gasoline, designated E10. Don't use any higher alcohol content gas. And increase the amount of oil added to the gasoline (in premix) or switch to an oil with a higher viscosity. You can get all alcohol out by vigorously mixing in 25% water. The alcohol bonds to the water molecules and settles to the bottom. Then just pour out the water/alcoho

 

[Al Smith]

Usually around late spring mix oil and bar oil goes on sale .When it does I'll stock up for the year and really don't care who made it .I've just about used nearly every brand made including high priced Stihl and Husqvarna but all at 32 to 1 ratio ,even the "holy grail" Amsoil .

 

[Woodsman]

So here's an excerpt from that link where he talks about Saber oil, notice the "BS" terminology ! I especially enjoyed this section of the write up...(See where I underlined the text...) I'm still reading this and trying to make sense out of it, how it applies to my chainsaw, etc...



Recommendations from Maxima Oil Company
I commend Maxima for making this info available. Most manufacturers don't make any info available to help people better pinpoint the fuel/oil ratio they need. But still you can see that the range they list is still leaving you to guess at the best ratio for your engine. Also it looks like these ratios apply to mineral oils since their extreme use ratios are around 20:1. Synthetic oils have extreme ratios above 35:1 so this list is not for the more popular synthetic oils.

Engine size	infrequently wide open throttle	motocross/enduro/ cross country	mostly WOT use road racing, track racing
50cc-125cc	50-60:1	25-32:1	20-25:1
125cc-250cc	50-60:1	32-40:1	20-32:1
250cc +	50-60:1	40:1	25-32:1

I asked Tim Schaeffer the representative of Maxima Oils: "how would you rate these oils for a small displacement air cooled street bike that sometimes has long high RPM runs on the highway?"

He replied: "Given the operating conditions I would rate these oils in this order: Castor 927, Formula K2, Super M, Premium 2, Scooter Pro."

So he favors formulas with castor above everything else and then goes by the % of synthetic oil in each. The more synthetic, the better the high RPM protection. Also I found that generally he rates them according to their 200*C viscosity which is a combination of the viscosity index and the 100*C viscosity values.

Contrast the above recommended ratios to the most common lie by some lazy and stupid oil manufacturers so plainly expressed in this online quote by AMSoil: "Because one mix ratio satisfies multiple pieces of equipment, Saber Professional eliminates mix ratio confusion." *B-S....! There's at least 6 different factors affecting what the fuel/oil ratio should be. Ratio confusion exists because they have never fully investigated this subject. Due to their irresponsibility I'll bet that 90% of the bikes in use are using too much or too little oil.

Less Oil Needed	More Oil Needed
low RPM	high RPM
water cooled	air cooled
high viscosity	low viscosity
little WOT time	much WOT time
gas w/o ethanol	gas with ethanol
low ambient temp	high ambient temp

- - - -
Ethanol containing gasoline ideally should never be used in a 2 stroke engine since the alcohol dries out the crank seals and causes them to have their lifespan drastically reduced if they aren't alcohol resistant. Also the alcohol doesn't immediately vaporize when it contacts the cylinder wall and so it dilutes the oil there, making it less effective at protecting the rings. To find sources of ethanol free fuel, go to this site -> http://pure-gas.org If you have to use it then use only 10% alcohol gasoline, designated E10. Don't use any higher alcohol content gas. And increase the amount of oil added to the gasoline (in premix) or switch to an oil with a higher viscosity. You can get all alcohol out by vigorously mixing in 25% water. The alcohol bonds to the water molecules and settles to the bottom. Then just pour out the water/alcoho

So, either use E10 or non-ethanol gas? Ok. What octane should I buy for the non-ethanol gas? I see some non-ethanol gas as low as 87 octane and as high as 113 octane.

 

[Loony661]

If you research synthetic oil, I believe you will find most start from crude oil or another petroleum base.

“Most” , and that’s because there’s lax regulations as to the % of synthetic an oil must be to be labeled as such. That being said, Amsoil is 100% Synthetic - base and and additives package.

 

[FederalQ]

IIRC, back when I purchased my original Farm Boss the manual stated minimum 89 octane gasoline. For years all that was available here was 91-93 octane ethanol free. But recently 87 has become available E-free. That‘s what I run in lawnmowers and generators but still get 91 for the saws. The 100+ octane fuels usually have lead in them.

 

[WCfirewoodguy]

So, either use E10 or non-ethanol gas? Ok. What octane should I buy for the non-ethanol gas? I see some non-ethanol gas as low as 87 octane and as high as 113 octane.

I would continue to do your own research as I am really good at finding stuff online, yet not so good at knowing what to do with the information I have found online! However don't use E10 unless you're going to use it right away on a big job, and then put some good gas in there before you store the saw away for the winter. That seems to be the general consensus. The best "canned fuel" you can find basically. I can get it local so I use Ethanol free but it's from a gas station with a multi-fuel nozzle, which I heard is not good, as some ethanol fuel might still be in the line. I guess the solution would be to have 2 gas cans, one for the lawn mower and the wood chipper engines, and then after filling that one, switch to the "good gas" gas can. Most of my vehicles run on diesel fuel so I can't really dump off fuel in my vehicles like most people.

I am leaning towards my next purchase of Maxima Castor 927 at WalMart online, unless someone else knows a better source? I remember my brother had a dirt bike and I loved that smell of the oil mix... Bean Oil is what he called it.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Maxima-Racing-Lubes-New-Maxima-Castor-927-16Oz-459-23916/493379474

 

[pbillyi69]

i think the best oil is the oil that i can see in my gas so i dont have to worry that i used the wrong gas can...........and it doesnt give me a headache when i burn it up

 

[AnthemBassMan]

May not help much, but this is the piston and exhaust port of my Husqvarna 128LD trimmer that’s been run until recently on nothing but Amsoil Saber and Echo Red Armor at 40:1. I don’t trash my equipment, but work them hard while still taking care of them. I’ve extensively used the edger, pole saw and mini tiller attachments that I bought for it. Matter of fact I just used to pole saw less than an hour ago to cut back a long overhanging 6” diameter branch off an 80’ white pine. The trimmer is four years old and I’ve never cleaned the exhaust port. The small amount of carbon in the exhaust port is nothing more than powder, no crusty buildup anywhere. But late last summer through now, I’ve been running Husqvarna XP+ at 40:1 to see how it works in everything. So far it seems pretty good, but I’ll be going back to Saber just because a quart of Amsoil Saber costs less than Red Armor or XP+.



L8R,
Matt

 

[pbillyi69]

so if you take all of your full synthetic oils and mix them with all of your mineral and bean oils then run that mix in your stuff you get all the benefits of all of them.....ta daaaa

 

[ferris]

Outside of the US, richer mixes are recommended. 50:1 is recommended here for emissions.

Here in Germany Stihl also recommendes 50:1

 

[Partner]

Here in Germany Stihl also recommendes 50:1

Yes, because we have oracles European Union

 

[huskihl]

In case you want the real oil thread, and not the baby one.

What oil is best? and what ratio?

All my cans say 25:1-40:1.. ;)

opeforum.com