Fast Angles for round chain

[Philbert]

Nobody free files just by hand anymore?

All my sharpening is done for free. But I use both hands, so I don’t have a free hand to file with!

Seriously, anyone can “freehand file“, but only a limited percentage can do it consistently and good. File guides, etc., help to keep things consistent and accurate.

Philbert

 

[davidwyby]

Once you've done anything for a long time and gotten real practiced at it (like driving), muscle memory, judging speed and all that, it's easy and you can repeatably do it well with minimal effort. Of course, some people never get as good at driving as some others, or as soon. Until one gets to the point of lots of practice and being able to know and hit the angles and sizes consistently and automatically without effort, one needs a guide. Especially if you just want it sharp now and not have to fool around and pay super close attention. Sometimes I freehand file for fun, but I have to be careful and it takes longer. If I just want it sharp, husky roller....

 

[RI Chevy]

I hear you Kenny. I see what you are talking about. I was trying to see if I could feel difference between 25 and 30° top plate angle. Secondary angle should be gone next touch up.
Good eye there.

 

[jetsam]

All my sharpening is done for free. But I use both hands, so I don’t have a free hand to file with!

Seriously, anyone can “freehand file“, but only a limited percentage can do it consistently and good. File guides, etc., help to keep things consistent and accurate.

Philbert

My neighbor is an expert freehand filer who has been doing it his whole life.

His definition of the end of a chain's life was pretty much 'whenever it gets so screwed up that he can't make it cut anymore'. (Now he brings them to me for grinding instead of trashing them.)

I'd laugh at him, but I used to be that guy too- I too was an expert freehand filer for about 25 years before I finally admitted I was terrible at it.

 

[AVB]

I was not as much as a free hand as I was one the did it use file guides to be consistent. What happen to cause me to switch over to a grinder was chains so hard to file that I getting blisters doing it. I did 8 chains one day and had several blister from it mainly because HFT grinder was too sloppy for my likes.

At first I tried the HFT grinder which was a joke as it quickly became apparent it was too limited and sloppy. I now have an Oregon grinder which is 10x if not better than the HFT unit. But I still like hand filing to even though I can do chains much faster on the grinder.

Many of customer like it that hand filed their chains as many guys with grinder simply don't know or care how set them up. They burned cutters or sliced tie straps plus they never did the depth gauges.

 

[AVB]

I was not as much as a free hand as I was one that did it use file guides to be consistent. What happen to cause me to switch over to a grinder was chains so hard to file that I getting blisters doing it. I did 8 chains one day and had several blister from it mainly because HFT grinder was too sloppy for my likes.

At first I tried the HFT grinder which was a joke as it quickly became apparent it was too limited and sloppy. I now have an Oregon grinder which is 10x if not better than the HFT unit. But I still like hand filing to even though I can do chains much faster on the grinder.

Many of customer like it that hand filed their chains as many guys with grinder simply don't know or care how set them up. They burned cutters or sliced tie straps plus they never did the depth gauges.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Honestly I struggle more with getting semi chisel sharp than chisel chain, like others have said muscle memory is a big part of sharpening. Since I learned on chisel its more about paying attention for other chains thats time consuming for me.
When I want a faster round filex chisel chain I often think of a good 3 angle valve job, that is I will cut 2 different angles into the side plate , a 25 to set the overall tooth then (without) touching the whole side plate a steeper sharp angle for edge. I also finish the corner of the top plate at a 10-15° tip down of my hand so as to really direct the cutting corner edge to the point.
I don't know if that makes sense? But if I'm gonna be cutting alot of pine and poplar trees thats what I do.

 

[jetsam]

I think that what people want when they ask what angles to grind/file at is how to make their chain cut well.

The secret they're reaching for isn't a certain set of angles or a certain piece of equipment. The secret is to measure your results.

If you are measuring the angles of the teeth and the AoA of the depth gauges, and making sure that they are both at some reasonable value and consistent with each other, you're going to get a chain that cuts fine, and it doesn't matter if you picked 60/30/0 or 50/25/10.

If you want to give it some whacks with a file until it looks about right when you squint at it, fine. That'll work for a while. But if you're not measuring your outcomes, you don't really know how you did, and you won't really know why sometimes it cuts well and sometimes it doesn't.

If you think that sounds impractical... well, the truth is that measuring your outcome takes much longer than sharpening a chain. But if you want to learn and improve, it's what you need to do. Seeing how it does in wood may be the real test, but it is not a test that will tell you why you got the result you did.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Hand filing is easy when your not watching every cutter with three X glasses on or looking through a five X lit lens.

Used to think I was good at free hand filing till I started using lighted lenses. Put on a blind fold and you will learn muscle memory. What a cutters feels like through the file when sharp and it just has it's own sound and feel imo.

Most of you sharpen with your arms but I've learned to use my legs more with a high mounted vice. If you move your wrist or forearms much, deviate from a straight line, you will never get good at hand filing or be accurate cutter to cutter imo. Most people who are good at billiards understand what I'm saying.

The worst thing I see is not being even side to side on the top plate face angle.
Second in the height of the file being consistent cutter to cutter. If you don't match the heights inside the tooth you get a different cutter every time. They never cut smooth.
If your cutting off to one side it's normally an easy fix. Just correct the angle up top. Most don't pay enough attention to your files depth from what I've seen.

 

[RI Chevy]

You guys are making it much more difficult than it has to be..
Bottom line, do what you think is best. My hand filed chain performs to my standards. Self feed, pull hard, cut straight, make big chips, and cut wood well...
Good enough for me...

If you want to grind, then grind...

 

[Lightning Performance]

You guys are making it much more difficult than it has to be..
Bottom line, do what you think is best. My hand filed chain performs to my standards. Self feed, pull hard, cut straight, make big chips, and cut wood well...
Good enough for me...

If you want to grind, then grind...

They asked for help not a bail out. You see the difference, yet?

It would take you an hour to *f-word up one of my milling chains.


You really have no clue do you?
Ignorance is bliss

 

[RI Chevy]

Wow Kenny. Nice...
Seeing that your the specialist, feel free to take over.
God bless you.

 

[Philbert]

Most people who are good at billiards understand what I'm saying.

I have used the billiards analogy many times: if you line up your cue just right, but twitch at the end, the ball is not going to move along the intended line.

If you slide your file smoothly, the twitch at the end, you may round off the edge you just created.

Philbert

 

[Michpatriot]

35 degree top plate on RS is pretty fast with the gullet cleaned out very deep, but it don't last but one tree if your felling, limbing and buckin it all at once..

 

[Wilhelm]

Windsor 58A chain, half worn, filed with an Archer FastFiler roller guide

Knotty turkey oak

Straight grain turkey oak

This chain is on its third tank of fuel and bucked up a whole giant dry wind blows oak including stumping the root ball off which caused some serious sparks.
I think it performs quite well still.

 

[Wolverine]

That reminds me why I love square so much. Appears grabby as hell. Personal preference, ymmv.

 

[davidwyby]

That reminds me why I love square so much. Appears grabby as hell. Personal preference, ymmv.

Ha! I recently got dumb with the raker file on some round…chain is probably ruined unless I tig up the rakers. Or maybe run it on the ported 3120 with a big sprocket in soft wood


At the GTG I ran some of Cole’s square on my XS395 with an 8 pin in smallish greenish beech…hot knife thru butter.

 

[Michpatriot]

Ha! I recently got dumb with the raker file on some round…chain is probably ruined unless I tig up the rakers. Or maybe run it on the ported 3120 with a big sprocket in soft wood


At the GTG I ran some of Cole’s square on my XS395 with an 8 pin in smallish greenish beech…hot knife thru butter.

Funny I've thought of TIG on rakers also..

 

[davidwyby]

here is the chain in question.

Imagine how much cooler this video would be if that was a ported 3120 and a 10 pin…and the log was strapped down.

 

[Wolverine]

here is the chain in question.

Imagine how much cooler this video would be if that was a ported 3120 and a 10 pin…and the log was strapped down.

Bone wood?