What to look out for on the 440 kit?

[StihlMagnum440]

The performance of 044/440s is so all over the map that this is a tough one to answer. Also, both my 462s are ported, my 044 is not.

Let's just say they are both very good performers with a 20" bar.

The 462 is lighter, does not need tuning when you change elevation/temperature, is smoother (spring AV) and the air filter says cleaner much longer. Also, the 462 has faster throttle response, which is really nice when limbing.

It is just an easier saw to pull out and use time after time. That said, there is nothing wrong with a good running 044/440. My 044 did very well against several 372s at a GTG.

I had a VG running 440 (not all of them are the same) that had the same mods as my 044 (it had a burned piston, so I got it for $25, was like brand new). Put a new piston in it, kept it for a while, then sold it when I had too many 70 cc saws. My 044 was just a little faster, but I liked that the 440 had compression release. However, I've owned the 044 since new (12/92), so I cannot let it go.

It took decades for Stihl or Husky to come out with a saw that was both lighter and stronger than the 044/440. The 462 is it.

This a saw that I contacted the seller about. For the price, I would go stock Stihl because I do not know the quality of work done. Just curious what someone with the know how thinks about it..at least I will learn something. Thanks.
Hmmm Stihl 440 with aluminum tank/ hand gaurd, solid crank bevelled OEM bearings,/,seals, 52 mm hyway with seganpenzi sp? piston, timed port tune, .020 squish, exhaust floor .030 gasket matched, intake cleared left rough, 160 psi, tunnels ported for torque and new fuel line, filters, impulse, boot, OEM walbro carb, copper heatsink for cooling with DP muffler..what do you think?

 

[slackinoff]

Bar and chain came in from hl supply sale. 20inch. Around 35 bucks. Going to cut some hardwood Saturday and Sunday for firewood.

 

[MustangMike]

This a saw that I contacted the seller about. For the price, I would go stock Stihl because I do not know the quality of work done. Just curious what someone with the know how thinks about it..at least I will learn something. Thanks.
Hmmm Stihl 440 with aluminum tank/ hand gaurd, solid crank bevelled OEM bearings,/,seals, 52 mm hyway with seganpenzi sp? piston, timed port tune, .020 squish, exhaust floor .030 gasket matched, intake cleared left rough, 160 psi, tunnels ported for torque and new fuel line, filters, impulse, boot, OEM walbro carb, copper heatsink for cooling with DP muffler..what do you think?

I'm not a fan of AM big bores, and I don't know what beveled bearings are. If you are not familiar with someone who has used a saw he did, I would not touch it. The only strong Hybrids I have seen use real 046/460 cylinders.

 

[MustangMike]

Bar and chain came in from hl supply sale. 20inch. Around 35 bucks. Going to cut some hardwood Saturday and Sunday for firewood.

View attachment 318968 View attachment 318969

The Raisman bars are OK if you keep your chain sharp. My tree guy hates them, as his guys destroy them fast, but I've use them w/o any problems mostly by making sure I keep my chains sharp.

 

[slackinoff]

Ok update on the handlebar screws. Mine had 2 - 21.5mm and 2 - 18mm. Thankfully I didn't put the 21.5mm screws on the tank side because they would have touched the tank. I checked the depth and it was 21.7mm. With vibrations it would have touched. The bottom screws I would prefer the 18mm screws but I have enough clearance to run the 21.5mm screws, I think. I will try to source to source some 18.5mm for the bottom just to be sure.

 

[Ronie]

Ok update on the handlebar screws. Mine had 2 - 21.5mm and 2 - 18mm. Thankfully I didn't put the 21.5mm screws on the tank side because they would have touched the tank. I checked the depth and it was 21.7mm. With vibrations it would have touched. The bottom screws I would prefer the 18mm screws but I have enough clearance to run the 21.5mm screws, I think. I will try to source to source some 18.5mm for the bottom just to be sure.

You could cut them down to the size you want.

 

[slackinoff]

The Raisman bars are OK if you keep your chain sharp. My tree guy hates them, as his guys destroy them fast, but I've use them w/o any problems mostly by making sure I keep my chains sharp.

I'll try to keep my chains sharp and see how it goes. I'm cutting up two large oak trees this Sat and Sunday that have been felled recently. Hopefully it gets me through this weekend.

You could cut them down to the size you want.

That's a great idea, I halfway thought about that when I looked them. I'm guessing since they are super coarse thread it won't be a big deal. Thanks!

 

[StihlMagnum440]

I'm not a fan of AM big bores, and I don't know what beveled bearings are. If you are not familiar with someone who has used a saw he did, I would not touch it. The only strong Hybrids I have seen use real 046/460 cylinders.

Exactly...knew that and I looked up bevelled too. Just caught my curiousity. Ever done cut to length logging...that will test you. The scale bd ft from smallest end of log and you better cut straight cuts and not loose chunks by not making clear cuts through the tree. After the butt log, each cut is cutting two logs so now straight clear cuts really matter. You need the logs to be straight (you are allowed some imperfection but you loose BD ft). The logs have to have a certain amount of overage on 8' logs and you want to squeek and fudge it as much as possible cause that 4-6 overage really makes a difference of how many logs you get from the tree. You do not want a bunch of little diameter logs ,(really suck extra loading and handling for not much BD ft). I worked in a state forestry program under a state Forester with a forestry plan. I used to know the exact diameter logs and BD ft in them. A certain diameter tree maximizes BD ft so usually for me it was 30" although mill would only take 28" but have me an exception. Ever drive a log truck? It is like hopping in a vehicle with your house on the back. You think your Mustang feels fast...when my log truck was off loaded and I got my $$ when I left the mill it felt like a Ferrari. These guys making chainsaw mills most of the time should make simple bandsaw Mills with Honda (or Honda type motors) and boat trailer wheels if need be. I have a bunch of Jonsered, McCulloch, Echo and Husky saws. Did not get into the saw modifying but used on tree farm. Got a bunch of Oregon bars and chains for next to nothing when local Home Quarters went out of business and liquidated so Home Depot could move in. My closet instead of ties has about 40 chains. You know your chainsaws in my .02 opinion. Thanks

 

[slackinoff]

I just realized my kit did not come with a gasket for the muffler cover. I just bolted the two halves together, might be leaking just a little bit. Anyway I see a copper gasket and a stihl branded regular silver metallic gasket. Any reason I can't run the saw without the cover gasket this weekend? Any reason for the copper gasket?

Thanks

 

[Ronie]

I just realized my kit did not come with a gasket for the muffler cover. I just bolted the two halves together, might be leaking just a little bit. Anyway I see a copper gasket and a stihl branded regular silver metallic gasket. Any reason I can't run the saw without the cover gasket this weekend? Any reason for the copper gasket?

Thanks

My two 660 clones and the my 036 don't have gaskets on them and I haven't noticed any leaks.

 

[MustangMike]

I was going to say, don't worry about it. Re: the other gaskets, use what seems to fit the best.

Sometimes a thicker gasket will line up better, or the opposite.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

This a saw that I contacted the seller about. For the price, I would go stock Stihl because I do not know the quality of work done. Just curious what someone with the know how thinks about it..at least I will learn something. Thanks.
Hmmm Stihl 440 with aluminum tank/ hand gaurd, solid crank bevelled OEM bearings,/,seals, 52 mm hyway with seganpenzi sp? piston, timed port tune, .020 squish, exhaust floor .030 gasket matched, intake cleared left rough, 160 psi, tunnels ported for torque and new fuel line, filters, impulse, boot, OEM walbro carb, copper heatsink for cooling with DP muffler..what do you think?

Two things that would steer me clear are the "copper cooling " thingy, thats the kind of tom foolery that has no basis in reality.
Secondly 160psi seems like a average to low number for a fresh / tight saw?

 

[StihlMagnum440]

Bar and chain came in from hl supply sale. 20inch. Around 35 bucks. Going to cut some hardwood Saturday and Sunday for firewood.

View attachment 318968 View attachment 318969[/QUOTE. Nice. Dual dogs with a chain catch and an elastostart handle. Bigger Dawgs keep log from hitting case and muffler and give exhaust heat and fumes room to dissipate. Helps keep saw straighter and holds it in all position. Plus (frowned upon) for leverage. Con..might stab you in the leg and shorten useable bar length. Up to you. Nice, looking forward to you cutting that tree up and your post.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

Two things that would steer me clear are the "copper cooling " thingy, thats the kind of tom foolery that has no basis in reality.
Secondly 160psi seems like a average to low number for a fresh / tight saw?

Couple things seem like Tom foolery. Just got curious what you guys would bring up. Do not see too many Stihl 044/440s for sale here let alone a modified one. Not going to happen tomorrow, but headed towards a new 462 until then my old non modded Stihl 440 will do what it always has. Plus I have part of a FT 440 kit to play with when we get buried in snow.

 

[MustangMike]

So many folks on this site build "Hybrids" (460 jug on a 440 frame) that OEM 440 P+Cs can often be found.

Could do a lot worse than putting a slightly ported one of them on the Asian bottom end!

 

[StihlMagnum440]

So many folks on this site build "Hybrids" (460 jug on a 440 frame) that OEM 440 P+Cs can often be found.

Could do a lot worse than putting a slightly ported one of them on the Asian bottom end!

How far off is a OEM Stihl from the porting you would recommend? From what I understand, OEM Stihl is ported with EPA constraints in mind. Everything is a trade off. I would have to check prices on the used vs just using the FT P&C. Probably just stick with the FT P&C and keep expenses to the minimum. Mastermind seem to imply he did think too highly of clone saws unless I misinterpreted. I tell you what, working on a chainsaw is sure easier than on a truck or backhoe. Chainsaws can be picked up by hand and moved around on a counter inside in the warmth. My saw when I was repairing it with FT kit parts still had sawdust and grit on it that needed cleaning which took about as much time as doing the repairing. As one poster stated that working on a kit saw is with all new and clean parts and I would like that. Working on my backhoe with hydraulic fluid etc getting on me and having to get in demanding physical positions is a whole other story. Chainsaws, even dirty, are a joy to work on in comparison.

 

[MustangMike]

Depends on the cylinder, they are by no means consistent.

The OEM cylinders generally have better transfer ports than the AM cylinders, which is one of the reasons they usually run better.

Checking the squish is always a good idea, as is checking the port timing.

Often, widening the exhaust port a bit and lowering/and/or widening the intake can make a big difference.

Some cylinders will have much more opportunity for improvement than others. Porting a cylinder is like putting a cam in a car.

Advancing the ignition timing, in conjunction with other mods, is also very important. Everything should be in sync to work right.

 

[slackinoff]

 

[StihlMagnum440]

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Nice!!! Hopefully your trailer is sitting low on the springs. Trailers without springs are a bad idea.My first trailer I bought from neighbor 40 years ago had no springs. I put wood sides on it and it looked pretty. Got a load of sheetrock at home Depot ten miles away. By the time I got home my wooden sides and tailgate were not there. Now to see how the stock FT saw holds up. If it does not make you happy, it makes no sense for me to put anything but the FT P&c on my kit vs a modified head producing more power. Finally, someone that did everything right (you with help from MustangMike) building a stock non modified FT saw!!! I hope that saw lasts forever.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

Depends on the cylinder, they are by no means consistent.

The OEM cylinders generally have better transfer ports than the AM cylinders, which is one of the reasons they usually run better.

Checking the squish is always a good idea, as is checking the port timing.

Often, widening the exhaust port a bit and lowering/and/or widening the intake can make a big difference.

Some cylinders will have much more opportunity for improvement than others. Porting a cylinder is like putting a cam in a car.

Advancing the ignition timing, in conjunction with other mods, is also very important. Everything should be in sync to work right.

If I lucked out and find an old OEM 10mm head etc with the more aggressive porting would that fit on? I am watching the guy that you just helped build a stock FT saw the right way. Depending on that saws durability it might not even be worth putting the stock FT head etc on it. At any rate I got the kit for the non mechanicals and anything more I get from kit is a bonus.