STIHL Intellicarb Carburetors

[lehman live edge slab]

As stated earlier, I have no problem with progress, but this just brings very little benefit, if any at all, to anyone with basic understanding of how an engine works.
What it does bring, is that you get to shoot it with the parts cannon, every time something fails, contrary to making a simple diagnose and fix the fault, on a saw without the self tuning feature.
Had they made a nice diagnostics tool available, for a reasonable price, I'd have been fine with it, but this is a half arsed solution, made this way to generate recurring revenue.
Pretty much the oldest trick in the book.

Not really because the mdg1 won’t really pin down what’s wrong just that the fuel trim is out of spec. So just treat as any other saw, start simple wirh a 5$ fuel filter and reset. If this doesn’t go try the 40$ solenoid and a reset. If this doesn’t do it make sure all connections are clean and tight. Then go for air leaks because odds are the electrical system is probably fine if saw is still running. Lots of the main components work or they don’t just like a standard carb saw. Also as far as maintenance and tear down after so many hours depending what your considering a tear down and inspection it could actually be more detrimental than helping. If a saw is running well and stuff to tear it down breaking the seals to inspect will give you a much better chance of something not sealing properly on way back together causing issues instead of preventing. If it’s running well clean it and blow it off, pull muffler and look if you want but outside of that just run it.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

If your regular carb saws need a re-tune, every time you run them, something isn't right.
That would defy basic physics.

No not really, it depends on how tight your tuning your saws. There’s many people that will tune a saw couple times a day because of a temperature swing ect. Yes you can set it a bit rich and let it be but it will always be a compromise. This morning it was -6 but will be close to 40 this afternoon and a saw would need a retuning to run perfectly in 45-50 degrees swing. If you’re ok with it running ok all the time yes you can do a fat tune and leave it. In this case you will see a performance gain more with mtronic because it’s tuning all the time as you cut.

 

[EFSM]

If your regular carb saws need a re-tune, every time you run them, something isn't right.
That would defy basic physics.

Absolutely true. Unless you only use them twice a year, once when it's 0* and then 6 months later when it's 90*.

 

[Loony661]

As stated earlier, I have no problem with progress, but this just brings very little benefit, if any at all, to anyone with basic understanding of how an engine works.
What it does bring, is that you get to shoot it with the parts cannon, every time something fails, contrary to making a simple diagnose and fix the fault, on a saw without the self tuning feature.
Had they made a nice diagnostics tool available, for a reasonable price, I'd have been fine with it, but this is a half arsed solution, made this way to generate recurring revenue.
Pretty much the oldest trick in the book.

I disagree. These saws aren’t failing. My 661C is a 1st gen from 2015. It’s never needed anything. And gets used weekly. My 462C is newer, from 2022, but gets used almost daily. No problems with that either. Both saws used in a hardwood logging environment.

The MTronic saws flat out run. And they definitely have a benefit - they pull harder through the cut, no matter the temperature. Since the MTronic is constantly adjusting, they have a broader power curve, keeping the saw at its best tune for a larger RPM window. In layman terms, they resist clutching out compared to a standard carbed model. And it’s a noticeable, felt difference.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Absolutely true. Unless you only use them twice a year, once when it's 0* and then 6 months later when it's 90*.

Absolutely untrue unless your just wanting it to run and not run as well as it can, if your fuel /air ratio is correct at 0 degrees no way it can be corrected at 50-60 out unless you set the carb slightly leaner to deal with less dense air.
Yes it will still run at the initial setting but not as well as it could. To the same effect if you tune on the lean side when it’s 80 out and say you don’t run for a few weeks now it’s fall and a cold snap. Say it’s 20 degrees out it could definitely be enough change to blow up a saw depending on how close to edge you tune it.

 

[Mig_Selv]

Not really because the mdg1 won’t really pin down what’s wrong just that the fuel trim is out of spec. So just treat as any other saw, start simple wirh a 5$ fuel filter and reset. If this doesn’t go try the 40$ solenoid and a reset. If this doesn’t do it make sure all connections are clean and tight. Then go for air leaks because odds are the electrical system is probably fine if saw is still running. Lots of the main components work or they don’t just like a standard carb saw. Also as far as maintenance and tear down after so many hours depending what your considering a tear down and inspection it could actually be more detrimental than helping. If a saw is running well and stuff to tear it down breaking the seals to inspect will give you a much better chance of something not sealing properly on way back together causing issues instead of preventing. If it’s running well clean it and blow it off, pull muffler and look if you want but outside of that just run it.

That's exactly what I was getting at. The diagnostics tool that should have been coming, along with the electronic system, somehow didn't show up.
It's like if you got a modern car, but they omitted the OBD plug.
Intermittent faults, I can't recall ever seeing on an engine, without some kind of electronic compensation circuit.

Tear down means removing the carb, ultrasonic cleaning of it, replace all seals, inspect bearings, inspect piston rings, check the spark plug, gap or replace. Remove build-up in exhaust and wherever else. Check all linkages. Test all hoses.
If you get leaks when assembling, you're doing something wrong. I've dealt with high performance small engines, for the better part of 40 years, even made engines from the ground up, and never had leakage problems, due to assembly.
On the other hand, the Stihl 261 has the honor of being the first saw, that has not worked flawlessly. Not once have I had a saw that committed suicide.
Have I replaced parts that were not 100% worn out, sure. In my opinion, that's called maintenance.
Granted, I've only had significant time on my saws for 3 years, but they really are not that different, from anything else with a small high performance engine.

 

[Mig_Selv]

Absolutely true. Unless you only use them twice a year, once when it's 0* and then 6 months later when it's 90*.

Even then, you have change between summer and winter setting.
I usually tune the saws, when I change the summer/winter setting anyway.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

That's exactly what I was getting at. The diagnostics tool that should have been coming, along with the electronic system, somehow didn't show up.
It's like if you got a modern car, but they omitted the OBD plug.
Intermittent faults, I can't recall ever seeing on an engine, without some kind of electronic compensation circuit.

Tear down means removing the carb, ultrasonic cleaning of it, replace all seals, inspect bearings, inspect piston rings, check the spark plug, gap or replace. Remove build-up in exhaust and wherever else. Check all linkages. Test all hoses.
If you get leaks when assembling, you're doing something wrong. I've dealt with high performance small engines, for the better part of 40 years, even made engines from the ground up, and never had leakage problems, due to assembly.
On the other hand, the Stihl 261 has the honor of being the first saw, that has not worked flawlessly. Not once have I had a saw that committed suicide.
Have I replaced parts that were not 100% worn out, sure. In my opinion, that's called maintenance.
Granted, I've only had significant time on my saws for 3 years, but they really are not that different, from anything else with a small high performance engine.

Still can be human error no matter who you are and putting 150$ in parts once a year in a saw isn’t getting your moneys worth. The lower rod bearing is only good for so many hours ect so and to know you’ve never had a leak you must pressure and vac test it every time after assembly. Saws are designed for a certain number of hours and are cheap in the grand scheme of things. Keep them clean run 40:1 instead of 50:1, run good fuel and change/clean filters and hoses when needed. Otherwise run till death and rebuild or buy another a 261 is like 800$ new and going by inflation actually cheaper then what my 026 was new in 1991. The 026 has never been apart, one or two fuel lines and a carb rebuild that’s it. Still runs like a champ. Local tree services run saws till it isn’t worth the money to them to fix they buy new and give me the old. Some of the 362 mtronics they have are 15 years old or more. I’ve changed 3 solenoids in the 7 years I’ve been working on their and other tree guys saws.

 

[Mig_Selv]

Just for the record, it's closer to $25 in parts for maintenance annually, bearings are cheap, under $10 a piece, if bought the right places, seals are even less, and there are really two that matters. I do pressure test hoses, grommets, and the like. Takes seconds to do.
Maybe I got a dud, and a friend of mine also had bad luck. That's sure statistically possible.
As I wrote earlier, my 261 will get a new solenoid, it's been ordered.
Let's see.....

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Just for the record, it's closer to $25 in parts for maintenance annually, bearings are cheap, under $10 a piece, if bought the right places, seals are even less, and there are really two that matters. I do pressure test hoses, grommets, and the like. Takes seconds to do.
Maybe I got a dud, and a friend of mine also had bad luck. That's sure statistically possible.
As I wrote earlier, my 261 will get a new solenoid, it's been ordered.
Let's see.....

Stihl uses proprietary bearings on one side and unless your buying cheap knock off bearings your not 10$ each. You’ll be lucky to get the pair for 60-80$. Oem seals are 30$ a set easy. If it continues to give you issues best thing to do is sell it and buy a non mtronic one if you truly believe they’re much better because you’ll be money ahead selling a buying new ms 261 or 362 non mtronic.

 

[Mig_Selv]

Stihl Mickey Mouse bearings are manufactured by slacker. I can't recall what I paid for them, but sure nothing close $60.
Echo uses standard bearings, cheap and available from SKF. I usually buy C3, they last longer.
Seals are seals, OEM or not.
Mine are best regards our little yellow friends, never caused me any grief.

EDIT:
slacker main bearing just under $15, the regular bearing from SKF around $6

 

[maulhead]

Stihl Mickey Mouse bearings are manufactured by slacker. I can't recall what I paid for them, but sure nothing close $60.
Echo uses standard bearings, cheap and available from SKF. I usually buy C3, they last longer.
Seals are seals, OEM or not.
Mine are best regards our little yellow friends, never caused me any grief.

EDIT:
slacker main bearing just under $15, the regular bearing from SKF around $6

What are, little yellow friends?

 

[Mastermind]

Not really because the mdg1 won’t really pin down what’s wrong just that the fuel trim is out of spec. So just treat as any other saw, start simple wirh a 5$ fuel filter and reset. If this doesn’t go try the 40$ solenoid and a reset. If this doesn’t do it make sure all connections are clean and tight. Then go for air leaks because odds are the electrical system is probably fine if saw is still running. Lots of the main components work or they don’t just like a standard carb saw. Also as far as maintenance and tear down after so many hours depending what your considering a tear down and inspection it could actually be more detrimental than helping. If a saw is running well and stuff to tear it down breaking the seals to inspect will give you a much better chance of something not sealing properly on way back together causing issues instead of preventing. If it’s running well clean it and blow it off, pull muffler and look if you want but outside of that just run it.

Any competent mechanic that works on these day after day should have a few parts on hand to diagnose with. For the 500i, we keep a fuel pump, and a kill switch assembly in stock. For the other Mtronic saws, we usually have new saws on hand to swap a few parts from. Solenoid, coil, wiring harness is usually all that is needed to figure out the problem.

 

[EFSM]

Any competent mechanic that works on these day after day should have a few parts on hand to diagnose with. For the 500i, we keep a fuel pump, and a kill switch assembly in stock. For the other Mtronic saws, we usually have new saws on hand to swap a few parts from. Solenoid, coil, wiring harness is usually all that is needed to figure out the problem.

I detest the parts cannon, but sometimes you have no other choice. Hopefully someday everyone will standardize the electronic interface like the auto industry.

 

[bwalker]

As stated earlier, I have no problem with progress, but this just brings very little benefit, if any at all, to anyone with basic understanding of how an engine works.
What it does bring, is that you get to shoot it with the parts cannon, every time something fails, contrary to making a simple diagnose and fix the fault, on a saw without the self tuning feature.
Had they made a nice diagnostics tool available, for a reasonable price, I'd have been fine with it, but this is a half arsed solution, made this way to generate recurring revenue.
Pretty much the oldest trick in the book.

It brings lots of benefits. The average guy can not tune a carb to save their lives for starters.

 

[bwalker]

Absolutely true. Unless you only use them twice a year, once when it's 0* and then 6 months later when it's 90*.

Absolutely not true. Any saw will run leaner on a cold morning vs in the heat of the day.

 

[Mig_Selv]

What are, little yellow friends?

Made in China/Asia

 

[Mig_Selv]

I detest the parts cannon, but sometimes you have no other choice. Hopefully someday everyone will standardize the electronic interface like the auto industry.

We couldn't possibly be more in agreement!

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Stihl Mickey Mouse bearings are manufactured by slacker. I can't recall what I paid for them, but sure nothing close $60.
Echo uses standard bearings, cheap and available from SKF. I usually buy C3, they last longer.
Seals are seals, OEM or not.
Mine are best regards our little yellow friends, never caused me any grief.

EDIT:
slacker main bearing just under $15, the regular bearing from SKF around $6

All saws have c-3 bearings oem because it’s a clearance rating that they don’t get too tight when warmed up. And you made the saw worse than before by using cheap bearings in place of oem but to each their own. Who cares if they standardize the electrical on the saws most won’t buy a scan tool unless it’s 50$ anyway and like I said the mdg1 isn’t needed on mtronic most times.

 

[dall]

All saws have c-3 bearings oem because it’s a clearance rating that they don’t get too tight when warmed up. And you made the saw worse than before by using cheap bearings in place of oem but to each their own

what do you expect
when the stupid *f-word is promoting his home country of china garbage
aint no use trying to talk sense into the stupid son of a *b-word