Oil questions...

[lilspenny]

What’s wrong with overkill? It’s the same price as saber and usually is available in quart jugs as compared to smaller bottles. One jug of 32:1 of mixed fuel goes into everything I own and work on. The only saw I’ve ever seen it build carbon on was a 2511. Even then it’s just on the outside of the muffler, the insides were clean

I think what they meant was that it might not burn the way it might in a motorcycle and might lead to carbon. My 4-mix equipment is sorta picky when it comes to oil. Lots of oils don't burn cleanly.

 

[huskihl]

Arborist site official fuel mix is half kerosene/ half Coleman's white gas. Has to be Coleman brand. Mixed 77.7/1 with liquefied unicorn farts and a sprinkle of fairy dust, which I'm told is zinc based.

Shhhh….dont be givin’ out the good stuff

 

[huskihl]

I think what they meant was that it might not burn the way it might in a motorcycle and might lead to carbon. My 4-mix equipment is sorta picky when it comes to oil. Lots of oils don't burn cleanly.

Try it and find out.
Everyone that hasn’t says it’s going to promote carbon and to run saber instead.

 

[16TAF]

I’ve used Ultra, regular Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo, Red Armor, Saber, and now I’m trying to The Duke’s oil. It’s all been fine. Saber is the cleanest, at least it appears that way.

 

[ZERO]

What’s wrong with overkill? It’s the same price as saber and usually is available in quart jugs as compared to smaller bottles. One jug of 32:1 of mixed fuel goes into everything I own and work on. The only saw I’ve ever seen it build carbon on was a 2511. Even then it’s just on the outside of the muffler, the insides were clean

Kev nothing wrong with overKILL, after a two decade pause, back to the big A, want to protect my XS baby.

2511 stock, very clean plug, piston, stock opened exhaust, yes it deposits as it cools and slows on the stock S shaped curves on the inside baffle plate. However, extremely clean exhaust port on the cylinder, something Castrol 2t racing could not do.
32:1, high jet on the fatter side.

 

[bwalker]

Ya Ive read and heard that all over. I did find that it darkened and slowed the fuel through the white filters. I have not seen any negative results besides a white ash build up inside the sparkplug. Does it supposedly build up deposit's in high heat areas like the ring and edge of piston?

Yes and those deposits can cause pre ignition. It's not doing you any good and your risking damage. Mystery oil is garbage snake oil too.

 

[bwalker]

Now you have me thinking.
Im wondering it if it will build up in the carb screen and diaphragm..... I need to tear a fine running trimmers carb apart and look

If its plugging fuel filters it might.

 

[bwalker]

Just making sure you realize that NGK heat ranges are backwards from most other manufacturers; the higher a number the cooler the tip. Echo uses 8 heat range plugs on almost everything except the 2620 engine and they have no issues with carbon buildup on the plugs. Like was mentioned, that is almost always a result of the carburetor settings being off.

Again... heat range doesn't change how clean the plug runs.

 

[EFSM]

Again... heat range doesn't change how clean the plug runs.

I think it has something to do with it, just not nearly as much as most people think.

 

[bwalker]

The first

Thanks, I actually tried the cmr5h which is a step hotter to see if that would be better than the cmr6h and it definitely improved the plug appearance. So, this was during the time frame that I widened the gap to .023. So, that's when I widened the oem cmr6h to .023. That small tweak eliminated the tiny (and I mean really tiny)bit of a surging issue with the Saber. Most people would have been ok with the .020 but I was being a perfectionist and the wider gap helped. So that's actually when I tried the Red Armor again. I did tweak the carb, as I ways do and just like before it was running like a top. After a full tank of Red Armor I checked the plug and it was a bit too black for my comfort and once again the piston crown was getting that amber varnish. That varnish sticks hard so I tried Power Tune again and even with a hot soak overnight the amount that was cleaned was neglible. Back to Saber, and once again Saber is starting to clean the mess. I'm wondering if the phenol may not be friendly to my blower. No matter which scenario the Red Armor leaves it's undesirable mark and tweaking the carb does not stop the formation of that varnish. When I started the search for the best oil I resisted Saber because of the variable ratio up to 100:1 which made it sound like snake oil. I tried 50:1 and the exhaust smell was great but perhaps a tad much so I tried 64:1 and the machine ran strong albeit with less smell but I actually prefer the 50:1 smell. I like a good stroke smell. So Saber does great except for the fact that it is not ashless like Ultra. I removed the muffler and the valve stems look normal. Saber works well and Red Armor does not. So be it. I do wonder if the phenol in the Red Armor isn't being processed well by my br800. It's not as hot as the Echos I have owned but after I ran the hotter cmr5h I felt enough extra heat to make me a bit concerned. Nothing major, but it did not fix the varnishing.

Spark plug heat range does not change how clean the plug runs... opening the gap did nothing for you but stress your coil more.
Red armor has ran clean in everything I have tried it in.

 

[bwalker]

I think what they meant was that it might not burn the way it might in a motorcycle and might lead to carbon. My 4-mix equipment is sorta picky when it comes to oil. Lots of oils don't burn cleanly.

I would suggest you just run your equipment and not look at the plugs or obsess about the oil.
Or just ditch that 4mix crap and get proper two cycle equipment.

 

[bwalker]

I think it has something to do with it, just not nearly as much as most people think.

Not at all. Its a measure of how hot the electrode runs, not the shell, or porcelain that people look at.
Essential you want to the electrode to run hot so it doesn't foul, but not so hot as to glow and cause pre ignition.

 

[EFSM]

Not at all. Its a measure of how hot the electrode runs, not the shell, or porcelain that people look at.
Essential you want to the electrode to run hot so it doesn't foul, but not so hot as to glow and cause pre ignition.

Exactly. Maybe it depends what we define as a clean plug. You can fudge a heat range or two either direction, but going from a BPMR2A to a BPMR8Y isn’t going to work.

 

[bwalker]

Exactly. Maybe it depends what we define as a clean plug. You can fudge a heat range or two either direction, but going from a BPMR2A to a BPMR8Y isn’t going to work.

The only times I have messed with plug heat range is to go with a colder plug in a very high strung race motor. With a saw there is no need to and going hotter will not make any difference in the cleanliness of the shell or porcelain.

 

[EFSM]

The only times I have messed with plug heat range is to go with a colder plug in a very high strung race motor. With a saw there is no need to and going hotter will not make any difference in the cleanliness of the shell or porcelain.

Almost the only times I see fouled plugs are from dirt or on a small 4-stroke Honda or similar that is overfilled with oil. The pictures the OP posted are definitely not fouled.

 

[lilspenny]

I would suggest you just run your equipment and not look at the plugs or obsess about the oil.
Or just ditch that 4mix crap and get proper two cycle equipment.

bwalker, For 18 years I ran Stihl 4-mix machines as well as Echo and Husqvarna in my personal lawn care business in metro Atlanta. I've found, from my experience, that Stihl quality has been superb and actually better than the other brands. I have run every gas station oil, outboard motor oil, and ratios from 24:1 to 64:1 in my 4-mix machines. They seem to survive, as do many 2 strokes, with carbon all over the place. But does it have to be that way? No, it doesn't. I have learned that Amsoil Saber will run very clean. So far, it's the only oil that I have found that runs clean in my br800. I'd like for other people to know that, and whether or not other oils will run clean in a 4-mix. Is it a big deal? Not really, because they will run for decades with crappy oil. That's ok for people who have blinders on or who may be too busy to notice. This is not about me. It's about my hatred of Stihl's arrogance. I plan to get two more oils that will work and publicize it through YouTube and forums. Stihl has insulted it's customers by pushing the pathetic Stihl Ultra and they are seemingly hellbent to keep pushing their "green" "tree hugging" agenda and for some reason the redneck republican Alabama boy in me just wants to speak out and let other people know that there are oils that work better in 4-mix engines than Ultra. I'm like Bill Murray trying to kill groundhogs. I don't just dislike Stihl Ultra, I despise it so much that I've asked you and others for your thoughts about this subject, and I'm grateful for your help. I'm not some crazy individual who is obsessed with his 4-mix oil, I want to help others who can benefit by getting away from Stihl Ultra, that nasty and stinky skunk oil.

 

[bwalker]

bwalker, For 18 years I ran Stihl 4-mix machines as well as Echo and Husqvarna in my personal lawn care business in metro Atlanta. I've found, from my experience, that Stihl quality has been superb and actually better than the other brands. I have run every gas station oil, outboard motor oil, and ratios from 24:1 to 64:1 in my 4-mix machines. They seem to survive, as do many 2 strokes, with carbon all over the place. But does it have to be that way? No, it doesn't. I have learned that Amsoil Saber will run very clean. So far, it's the only oil that I have found that runs clean in my br800. I'd like for other people to know that, and whether or not other oils will run clean in a 4-mix. Is it a big deal? Not really, because they will run for decades with crappy oil. That's ok for people who have blinders on or who may be too busy to notice. This is not about me. It's about my hatred of Stihl's arrogance. I plan to get two more oils that will work and publicize it through YouTube and forums. Stihl has insulted it's customers by pushing the pathetic Stihl Ultra and they are seemingly hellbent to keep pushing their "green" "tree hugging" agenda and for some reason the redneck republican Alabama boy in me just wants to speak out and let other people know that there are oils that work better in 4-mix engines than Ultra. I'm like Bill Murray trying to kill groundhogs. I don't just dislike Stihl Ultra, I despise it so much that I've asked you and others for your thoughts about this subject, and I'm grateful for your help. I'm not some crazy individual who is obsessed with his 4-mix oil, I want to help others who can benefit by getting away from Stihl Ultra, that nasty and stinky skunk oil.

I have never had a piece of equipment that burned dirty or made carbon... because I use quality oil of the right type and I can tune a carb... start at the start and get your carbs set right.
The 4 mix is an idiotic design and many have issues when ran commercialy. Redmax and Echo both make better quality and better performing equipment with out the problems associated with a bastard design that uses a 4 cycle motor than runs on pre mix fuel.

 

[Jusgunn3]

Just run Dominator or red armor and call it a day…

 

[MtnHaul]

Boy oh boy do I love these oil threads--any forum, anytime. I'm watching Jackie Gleason take acid in Skidoo and reading this thread so it's an awesome double-dose of insanity. I don't have a particularly strong opinion about a favorite oil but I did not see a mention of Redline 2T racing oil. I know a couple arborists who swear by it in their chainsaws and after using a bottle's worth I can only say I liked the smell much better than most other oils. Any particular hate/love for Redline?

 

[lilspenny]

I have never had a piece of equipment that burned dirty or made carbon... because I use quality oil of the right type and I can tune a carb... start at the start and get your carbs set right.
The 4 mix is an idiotic design and many have issues when ran commercialy. Redmax and Echo both make better quality and better performing equipment with out the problems associated with a bastard design that uses a 4 cycle motor than runs on pre mix fuel.

I understand totally. When I see that others have had troubles with 4-mix engines insofar as reliability it baffles me because I haven't seen that. 20 years after my first 4-mix purchase I had a rubber grommet fall off and jam a flywheel. I couldn't see the cause so I adjusted the valves and inspected the cam for the first time. There was considerable floating carbon on the cam and I had been using Ultra for almost 2 years. But, everything was intact and the valves were very close to spec. I cranked the machine and it jammed again and that is when I found the loose grommet. That is the only engine related issue except routine maintenance and new carbs about every 10 years per machine. I have always kept the carbs adjusted properly. The carbon issue is not a fatal flaw, but it is calculated into the design as acceptable. I just don't dig it. The 4-mix is fine imo for string trimmers because it is high torque at lower rpm, and lower rpm is where they offer their best advantage. Sorta like an old 2 cylinder John Deere putt putt tractor. Not to say they won't rev, but lower rev torque allows safer operation around windows and storm doors. But....that's not the cause of the carbon which is a 4-mix/oil compatibility issue that can be reduced considerably with a proper oil such as Saber. I plan to find 2 other oils that will work, and I bet they exist. Which ones and what ratio? Not sure, but there are several options that I haven't tested. I have time to find more options than Saber and that is my objective. Echo is now producing a new model, the pb5810, which utilizes a very similar 4-stroke design. This older Shindaiwa design/concept may be utilized more due to emissions. I hope not, but it's worth watching. Interesting to me that Echo recommends Red Armor for the pb5810 and not some ashless composition. I think the EPA needs to bug out, but it seems that child labor in The Congo is not as bad as air pollution in the USA and Stihl is at the forefront of the movement, fully embracing their role as being an environmentally friendly company which pushes cobalt from The Congo. Husky is not far behind. I find all of that sickening. Even 2 stroke outboard motors are gone. It should be very concerning to those of us who like 2 strokes even if they have (eye roll) catalytic converters, as many do.