Octane Gas Test - 661

[Ozarker]

I always heard the mid grade was 93 and 87 mixed

That's the only way I can get an e-free mid-grade.

 

[Ron660]

What about the canned fuels?
Anyone ever test the 40:1 trufuel at 91 octane vs the 40:1 VP at 94 octane?
Seems the canned fuel boys would have good control of their inputs eh?

I know which one I prefer.

I've used the VP canned fuel. Good stuff but expensive. I was told that VP uses Motul 710 in their premix cans. Not sure if that's true.

 

[jmssaws]

Run some E-85 and Klotz..

Report back your findings.

E-85 is high octane.

 

[jmssaws]

I have bought gas at the same vp racing fuels station for years,it's good consistent fuel.

They have motul and klotz and beer and fried chicken. Best gas station ever

 

[KenJax Tree]

I've used the VP canned fuel. Good stuff but expensive. I was told that VP uses Motul 710 in their premix cans. Not sure if that's true.

They used to have it posted on they're website. Now it just says they used a top quality synthetic oil.

 

[Backtroller]

Yes he made it sound that way but he said it was a guess on the octane level once combined. It didn't sound very scientific -the measurements

 

[Ron660]

They used to have it posted on they're website. Now it just says they used a top quality synthetic oil.

Once you said that I do remember reading it on there website. Later on it was removed.

 

[Moparmyway]

They used to have it posted on they're website. Now it just says they used a top quality synthetic oil.

They are selling their own 2 cycle oil now, I've got to assume that they are using their new oil for mix

 

[Redbull661]

A gentleman who works at a refinery PM'd me with some interesting info...


The different temps may be due to the differences in blend components when it is "assembled" at the refinery. The high speed blending unit we have at the refinery I work at is very accurate and automated, but the blend components change depending on season and what is in the inventory in the tank farm. Good test Redbull, thank you.
----------------------------------
I asked some questions and some more response...

In our blending plant they make each octane grade ( Three grades) to the government specifications for Octane, contaminant/water , Vapor pressure, non corrosiveness, etc. So the higher octane fuel typically uses more of the high octane components to make it which are usually more expensive to make. They also add products to prevent corrosion and help lubrication if needed. This is all before it gets loaded into the trucks.
Once it gets to the truck rack and is ready to be loaded onto the truck, the proprietary additive package is metered and mixed into the fuel as it is loaded into the truck tanker. ( Shell additive, Chevron additive, generic additive, etc.) So until it is on the truck, it is a standard blend for this refinery meeting the Government specs. The additive packages really do make a difference on things like engine cleanliness and lubrication. (There is a minimum spec that even the generic gasolines have to meet to be sold on the market : Costco, Fred Meyer, etc, all meet that spec with the generic additive) The generic is not a bad additive, it is just not as good as the top tier additive and is typically metered in at the lowest level to meet Govt regs). I use generic quite often and just throw in some fuel system cleaner once in a while.

So far as the color differences, some additive packages have different dyes or colorants in them to make the fuel distinctive in color. The different refineries all blend a little different depending on how they are set up so far as blend components also.

The test results that surprised me the most was the temperature differences..... so I think it is probably the blend components coming out of the tank farm that are different depending on which refinery makes the fuel. ( The blend may effect the temp being produced by the saw I suppose). Some components are higher octane, or cleaner coming from each different unit in the refinery. Some refineries are short on one product or long on another, so they use as much of the stuff they have lots of, and as little as possible on the stuff they are short on. So in the end, they meet the government specs at each refinery, but the component blend will vary somewhat by facility. Nothing bad or good is trying to be done, it is just how the places work So, you might find one brand at a station that gets their fuel from a refinery that your saw really likes or just down the road another blend from a different refinery that your saw doesn't like. Then it changes over the seasons because of cold weather (RVP numbers) They put more light stuff in during winter so the engines start easier.

------------------------------------------------------
Redbull says -

So 91 would be less corrosive and have less contaminants than 87 or 89?


So 91 should run cleanest? Vs 87 or 89 (most likely)


So 91 should have a little more lubrication than 87 or 89?
------------------------------------------
His response...
The 91 89 and 87 will all be about the same for corrosiveness, they just need to meet a minimum standard so they do not harm a fuel system,
the 91/92 octane that Shell sells has a lot more detergents in it than the 87 and 89 since it is their flagship product, but all will help clean a cars engine inside ( Carbon on injectors and combustion chamber, pistons, etc.)

I am not sure about other brands of gasoline. Some may just be higher octane with the same amount of detergents. Chevron and 76 also have very good additives from what I have heard.

The lubrication standard is also a government minimum type thing, so I think the lubricity would be very close between the different octane grades.
----------------------------------------------------
Redbull says -

here I found something...gotta think about it for a bit... " Buy gasoline during coolest time of day - early morning or late evening is best. During these times gasoline is densest. Keep in mind - gas pumps measure volumes of gasoline, not densities of fuel concentration. You are charged according to "volume of measurement".

----------------------------------
His Response...

Yeah, that makes sense that you would get more gasoline for your buck when it is cold.

I run premium fuel in all my outdoor power equipment..... I think it is well worth the small extra bit of money.

 

[wildroamer]

Colder gas will be denser, but remember where it's coming from. Fairly well insulated underground tanks. I doubt there is much variation in temp inside those tanks hour by hour.

 

[Keith Gandy]

A gentleman who works at a refinery PM'd me with some interesting info...

The different temps may be due to the differences in blend components when it is "assembled" at the refinery. The high speed blending unit we have at the refinery I work at is very accurate and automated, but the blend components change depending on season and what is in the inventory in the tank farm. Good test Redbull, thank you.
----------------------------------
I asked some questions and some more response...

In our blending plant they make each octane grade ( Three grades) to the government specifications for Octane, contaminant/water , Vapor pressure, non corrosiveness, etc. So the higher octane fuel typically uses more of the high octane components to make it which are usually more expensive to make. They also add products to prevent corrosion and help lubrication if needed. This is all before it gets loaded into the trucks.
Once it gets to the truck rack and is ready to be loaded onto the truck, the proprietary additive package is metered and mixed into the fuel as it is loaded into the truck tanker. ( Shell additive, Chevron additive, generic additive, etc.) So until it is on the truck, it is a standard blend for this refinery meeting the Government specs. The additive packages really do make a difference on things like engine cleanliness and lubrication. (There is a minimum spec that even the generic gasolines have to meet to be sold on the market : Costco, Fred Meyer, etc, all meet that spec with the generic additive) The generic is not a bad additive, it is just not as good as the top tier additive and is typically metered in at the lowest level to meet Govt regs). I use generic quite often and just throw in some fuel system cleaner once in a while.

So far as the color differences, some additive packages have different dyes or colorants in them to make the fuel distinctive in color. The different refineries all blend a little different depending on how they are set up so far as blend components also.

The test results that surprised me the most was the temperature differences..... so I think it is probably the blend components coming out of the tank farm that are different depending on which refinery makes the fuel. ( The blend may effect the temp being produced by the saw I suppose). Some components are higher octane, or cleaner coming from each different unit in the refinery. Some refineries are short on one product or long on another, so they use as much of the stuff they have lots of, and as little as possible on the stuff they are short on. So in the end, they meet the government specs at each refinery, but the component blend will vary somewhat by facility. Nothing bad or good is trying to be done, it is just how the places work So, you might find one brand at a station that gets their fuel from a refinery that your saw really likes or just down the road another blend from a different refinery that your saw doesn't like. Then it changes over the seasons because of cold weather (RVP numbers) They put more light stuff in during winter so the engines start easier.

------------------------------------------------------
Redbull says -

So 91 would be less corrosive and have less contaminants than 87 or 89?


So 91 should run cleanest? Vs 87 or 89 (most likely)


So 91 should have a little more lubrication than 87 or 89?
------------------------------------------
His response...
The 91 89 and 87 will all be about the same for corrosiveness, they just need to meet a minimum standard so they do not harm a fuel system,
the 91/92 octane that Shell sells has a lot more detergents in it than the 87 and 89 since it is their flagship product, but all will help clean a cars engine inside ( Carbon on injectors and combustion chamber, pistons, etc.)

I am not sure about other brands of gasoline. Some may just be higher octane with the same amount of detergents. Chevron and 76 also have very good additives from what I have heard.

The lubrication standard is also a government minimum type thing, so I think the lubricity would be very close between the different octane grades.
----------------------------------------------------
Redbull says -

here I found something...gotta think about it for a bit... " Buy gasoline during coolest time of day - early morning or late evening is best. During these times gasoline is densest. Keep in mind - gas pumps measure volumes of gasoline, not densities of fuel concentration. You are charged according to "volume of measurement".

----------------------------------
His Response...

Yeah, that makes sense that you would get more gasoline for your buck when it is cold.

I run premium fuel in all my outdoor power equipment..... I think it is well worth the small extra bit of money.

Interesting! Thanks Redbull

 

[Redbull661]

Colder gas will be denser, but remember where it's coming from. Fairly well insulated underground tanks. I doubt there is much variation in temp inside those tanks hour by hour.

btw There was a lot more to be had from that post/exchange than

 

[5000+]

Gas in milk jugs was know for causing problems. Gas would break down plastics and foul the gas, simular to ethenol causing trouble with fiberglass marine fuel tanks.

 

[mdavlee]

I have some glass apple juice jugs I'm going to use to put some gas up for a little while.

 

[wildroamer]

I think those are called Molotov cocktails....

 

[Deets066]

I think those are called Molotov cocktails....

 

[Keith Gandy]

I think those are called Molotov cocktails....

!!!

 

[KenJax Tree]

Trufuel bottles work great and fit it a coat pocket

 

[Marshy]

"The temperature at which gasoline is sold has been the focus of legislative interest of late in several states, the primary issue being that regulators maintain gasoline expands or contracts about 1% for every 15-degree change in the fuel's temperature. U.S. oil companies and distributors account for temperature when they sell to each other, but most retail outlets in the U.S. (i.e., gas stations that service ordinary motorists) make no such adjustments. The standard used in the oil industry assumes fuel is dispensed at a temperature of 60°F; however, fuel often comes out of service station pumps at considerably higher temperatures (especially in warmer climates), but its volume is still calculated as if it were 60°F, which advocates claim results in customers' getting a smaller volume of gasoline than they're paying for. Lawmakers in some states (such as California, Texas, and Missouri) have therefore been considering bills that would force retailers to add temperature-adjusting pumps (Automatic Temperature Compensation, or ATC) in order to bring the gallons-sold tally in line with the 60°F standard.

(Temperature regulations on gasoline sales are already in effect in some places. Hawaii, for example, requires retail pumps to dispense fuel on the assumption that it is 80°F rather than 60°F. ATC is widely used in Canada, but some critics have noted that Canada's colder climate means gasoline is often dispensed at temperatures lower than 60°F, resulting in customers' getting more than they're paying for — hence the oil industry's eagerness to embrace ATC in that country while resisting its implementation in the U.S.)

The whole temperature/volume issue is a subject of lively debate: Some maintain that consumers always get the volume of gas they pay for, regardless of temperature, and the real issue is whether a gallon of warmer, expanded fuel contains as much "energy" as a gallon of cooler fuel. Some say it doesn't; others maintain that consumers are getting the same "energy content" in a tank of gas either way. "

Read more...

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp

 

[Brewz]

In Australia, we can get E10 which is 91 octane with 10% ethanol. This is the cheapest nastiest fuel available.
There are generally only ever 3 other options of Ethernet free fuel, and diesel.
91, 95 and 98.
Some places run 100 RON and I have a car running a 6.0 liter Chev motor which has E85 labels in the fuel cap. I have never seen E85 on tap.

I have always used the 98 octane fuel as I usually cut in heat, and the fuel runs cooler. Its also cleaner.

I think I will get a liter of the 91 and mix it at 40:1 to see how it goes