I need your opinion on this...

[Gentleman]

Can I get some opinions on this cylinder/piston kit warranty sheet I'm working on. I want to include it with every cylinder kit that we sell. Will it cut down on the complaints from guys who put new cylinders on without fixing the problem that caused the failure. My fried Lee Smith from Lil Red Barn told me that it is working of him.

Any thing I should add or change? I'm sure I will get some good comments.

Cylinder/Piston Kit Warranty Information​

To ensure that your machine starts and stays running for a long time you must perform the following tests before installing your new part.

In any 2-cycle engine you have two compression tests to perform, primary and secondary. Most people only do the secondary compression test. The secondary compression test is done by screwing a compression tester into the spark plug hole and pulling the starter rope. This test will only tell you the condition of the upper cylinder.

The primary compression tests are in the lower end of the crankcase. This test consists of vacuum and pressure tests. All 2-cycle engines must be air tight to perform correctly in operation. There cannot be any air leaks of vacuum leaks. Failure to perform the vacuum and pressure tests will void your warranty.

This testing information is true for all 2-cycle engines. Before any new parts are installed, whether OEM or aftermarket, these checks must be performed or there is a good possibility the engine will fail again. Do not just replace a cylinder or piston kit because it failed. It failed for a reason. If you don’t solve the problem it will happen again.

Possibilities the engine could have failed:
· Carburetor was improperly adjusted
· Improper fuel mixture
· Mechanical failure
· Loose cylinder bolts
· Leaking gaskets
· Impulse line
· Leaking intake manifold
· Carburetor inlet screen has debris causing fuel starvation
· Dirt ingestion
· Leaking oil seals
· Ethanol-based gas sat too long

In addition to the compression tests, you should also check your crankcase pulse. Primary compression is one part of crankcase pulse; the other part is cylinder, piston and ring condition. Crankcase pulse is necessary for the fuel pump, which is built into the carburetor, to pump fuel from the tank for the engine to run. To check the crankcase pulse, remove the carburetor and spark plug, apply some oil inside the impulse line and pull the starter handle. Oil should pulsate inside the hole. If you don’t have good crankcase pulse the carburetor will not perform correctly to keep the engine running at peak performance.

We recommend having a qualified technician perform these tests and install your parts.
​

Our cylinder kits are covered by 30-day warranty.
Failure to perform these checks will void your warranty​

 

[mdavlee]

That looks good to me. Might cut down on dummies swapping parts to do it over and over on someone else's dime.

 

[TJ the Chainsaw Mechanic]

Looks good to me too.

 

[Moparmyway]

Looks good, should get less repeat failures

 

[P.M.P.]

That's Full of info and shows how you care in what is being sold.

 

[Redfin]

I would add a defective fuel line to the list of possible failures.

 

[Gentleman]

defective fuel line

Got it.

 

[angelo c]

There cannot be any air leaks of vacuum leaks.

assuming "or" and not "of"

also something to the effect of "pressure and vac" before teardown and after rebuild.
I might carry a "mityvac 8500" as a suggested 'repair' tool too and a video of how to press/vac test as well.

 

[Definitive Dave]

Can I get some opinions on this cylinder/piston kit warranty sheet I'm working on. I want to include it with every cylinder kit that we sell. Will it cut down on the complaints from guys who put new cylinders on without fixing the problem that caused the failure. My fried Lee Smith from Lil Red Barn told me that it is working of him.

Any thing I should add or change? I'm sure I will get some good comments.

Cylinder/Piston Kit Warranty Information​

To ensure that your machine starts and stays running for a long time you must perform the following tests before installing your new part.

In any 2-cycle engine you have two compression tests to perform, primary and secondary. Most people only do the secondary compression test. The secondary compression test is done by screwing a compression tester into the spark plug hole and pulling the starter rope. This test will only tell you the condition of the upper cylinder.

The primary compression tests are in the lower end of the crankcase. This test consists of vacuum and pressure tests. All 2-cycle engines must be air tight to perform correctly in operation. There cannot be any air leaks of vacuum leaks. Failure to perform the vacuum and pressure tests will void your warranty.

This testing information is true for all 2-cycle engines. Before any new parts are installed, whether OEM or aftermarket, these checks must be performed or there is a good possibility the engine will fail again. Do not just replace a cylinder or piston kit because it failed. It failed for a reason. If you don’t solve the problem it will happen again.

Possibilities the engine could have failed:
· Carburetor was improperly adjusted
· Improper fuel mixture
· Mechanical failure
· Loose cylinder bolts
· Leaking gaskets
· Impulse line
· Leaking intake manifold
· Carburetor inlet screen has debris causing fuel starvation
· Dirt ingestion
· Leaking oil seals
· Ethanol-based gas sat too long

In addition to the compression tests, you should also check your crankcase pulse. Primary compression is one part of crankcase pulse; the other part is cylinder, piston and ring condition. Crankcase pulse is necessary for the fuel pump, which is built into the carburetor, to pump fuel from the tank for the engine to run. To check the crankcase pulse, remove the carburetor and spark plug, apply some oil inside the impulse line and pull the starter handle. Oil should pulsate inside the hole. If you don’t have good crankcase pulse the carburetor will not perform correctly to keep the engine running at peak performance.

We recommend having a qualified technician perform these tests and install your parts.

Our cylinder kits are covered by 30-day warranty.
Failure to perform these checks will void your warranty​

edit the verbiage down some, nobody reads the fine print and anything longer than 144 characters is fine print in this day and age

I say a little something similar in my Ebay ads, but at least there it doesn't matter, the transaction is governed by Ebay and the rules of the payment processor not by me, regardless of what I might like.
Dave

"If you don’t KNOW why your piston or cylinder was damaged the first time, don’t just replace it or the same thing will happen, these parts die for a reason. The most common reasons for scoring are bad fuel, improperly adjusted carburetors, and air leaks."

I sell the OEM Stihl Pressure vac test kit ($$$$) as well as separately the exhaust and intake fittings. I really wish I could get the Mighty Vac 8500 in bulk at a wholesale price, it would be a big seller I am sure.

 

[TJ the Chainsaw Mechanic]

I would also add for the heck of it that you Need to have a Clean Air Filter after installation and at all times. Alot of people that bring saws into the shop I work at never clean their air filter.

 

[Andydodgegeek]

Looks good and thorough to me. Now if people will just read it. At least you have yourself covered and you are trying to warn them.

 

[trooney]

Put the defective fuel line in there and I think you have covered all bases. Most of the people that try to rebuild their own are at least mechanically inclined if not 2 stroke mechanics. A little bit of instruction will go along way.

 

[Gentleman]

assuming "or" and not "of"

also something to the effect of "pressure and vac" before teardown and after rebuild.
I might carry a "mityvac 8500" as a suggested 'repair' tool too and a video of how to press/vac test as well.

Do you know who makes the Mityvac? What else would we need to sell with it to do the pressure/vacuum tests?

 

[Gentleman]

"If you don’t KNOW why your piston or cylinder was damaged the first time, don’t just replace it or the same thing will happen, these parts die for a reason. The most common reasons for scoring are bad fuel, improperly adjusted carburetors, and air leaks."

I like that better

 

[Milkman31]

On compression test. the rope will need to be pulled till you reach the highest reading. And a sharp chain would save a lot of saws!

 

[Definitive Dave]

Do you know who makes the Mityvac? What else would we need to sell with it to do the pressure/vacuum tests?

it comes with most of what you need for hoses etc and I think it has the cone fitting for doing the fuel tank tests, after that it can vary a lot by saw
on modern stihls you can get by with one intake and two basic exhaust fittings but after that I don't have much advice except open the pocketbook or make your own

exhaust side these should work for 99% of all saws and small equipment, they fit between the muffler and cylinder, two sizes with angles to fit regardless of muffler bolt spacing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...000-855-8106-and-0000-855-8107-/221833251715?

intake side for a lot of the Stihls from the modern era - you need a crazy long screw to use in testing the 020T, MS200T that doesn't come with the $470.00 kit
Also if you save an intake base from a crushed MS220T and MS201T you can test the intake boot at the same time as the pressure vacuum test (a big advantage of this test flange for most Stihls) and since the intake is hard to diagnose visually you can pump this up and bend it around to easily check for leaks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...ssure-vacum-tester-carb-flange-/321731328286?

Hope I am not stepping on toes posting those links here, and of course I buy them 10 at a time and am always out of stock, despite their expense.


It is hard to tell a novice all the things that might be their problem in a listing, but it is probably a good line to recommend a pro do the service.

 

[Moparmyway]

What else would we need to sell with it to do the pressure/vacuum tests?

Some rubber for block off gaskets

 

[Definitive Dave]

Do you know who makes the Mityvac? What else would we need to sell with it to do the pressure/vacuum tests?

Awhile back I contacted them wanting to buy in lots of 100 and they recommended I buy them at Sears
They apparently sell to two distributers who sell to chain stores, same thing with Loctite products unless I want to buy from China which looks "a little hinckey" to me.
Dave

 

[angelo c]

Do you know who makes the Mityvac? What else would we need to sell with it to do the pressure/vacuum tests?

I use a decent amount of "gorilla" tape. I guess a good "duct tape" might work too. Quick and dirty sealants for exhaust and intake manifolds.
Agree with DDave on the 8500 having all kinds of widgets , adapters (inlets) and plugs in the kits.

 

[Terry Hennessy]

Might want to change wording to "Before starting engine with your new piston/ cylinder.."; NOT sure you can do a pressure/ vacuum test on many failed engines?; additionally, testing w/ old parts does not mean that newly reassembled does not have same/ new problem, unless you test after installing? My $0.02