MS400.1 c-m

[Mastermind]

Im pretty sure the reason for the one piece cover is the air injection set up for spinning the fines out of the air before going to the air filter. The reason the 500 is two pieces is because they didn’t want the air injection system for the intake because the 500 needs all the fans air for cooling.

Spot on.

 

[wiwalker06]

Im pretty sure the reason for the one piece cover is the air injection set up for spinning the fines out of the air before going to the air filter. The reason the 500 is two pieces is because they didn’t want the air injection system for the intake because the 500 needs all the fans air for cooling.

The 500i design is terrible layout wise. The Husky XP/ MS462 is much better.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

The 500i design is terrible layout wise. The Husky XP/ MS462 is much better.

This is also an area of preference and will never be the same for everyone most of the bigger tree companies up here are now running 500’s and it would be a cold day before anyone could talk them into anything else.

 

[bogieboy]

This is also an area of preference and will never be the same for everyone most of the bigger tree companies up here are now running 500’s and it would be a cold day before anyone could talk them into anything else.

In my neck of the woods, its an odd mix... theres several guys that want the 500s, but most of them go ms362, and if its not big enough, they go straight to the 661, theres only 3 or 4 guys i know of that have 462s in the line up...

 

[wiwalker06]

This is also an area of preference and will never be the same for everyone most of the bigger tree companies up here are now running 500’s and it would be a cold day before anyone could talk them into anything else.

I think they go with the 500I for it's performance, not it's design details.
And to be clear on my comment. The performance of the 500i isnt terrible. But the design that flexes the intake boot everytime the rear handle is torqued isn't a good design.

 

[huskihl]

But the design that flexes the intake boot everytime the rear handle is torqued isn't a good design.

I get it, but it worked for every Stihl saw since the late 80’s. Don’t hear about too many torn Stihl boots

 

[wiwalker06]

I get it, but it worked for every Stihl saw since the late 80’s. Don’t hear about too many torn Stihl boots

Its not just air leaks it's the effect of flexing the boot on air flow. It's just a poor design and as you say circa the 1980's.
I would also bet the Husky XP/MS462 style design also has better antivibe numbers without resorting the soft springs as the 500I has.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Its not just air leaks it's the effect of flexing the boot on air flow. It's just a poor design and as you say circa the 1980's.
I would also bet the Husky XP/MS462 style design also has better antivibe numbers without resorting the soft springs as the 500I has.

You want to talk about dumb designs, husky and the plastic intake block the carb on the 50,51,55 have is great. Point is they all have some design flaws but usually don’t see many boot issues on stihls.

 

[Woodwackr]

I get it, but it worked for every Stihl saw since the late 80’s. Don’t hear about too many torn Stihl boots

Except for the clone boots . Big failure rate.

 

[huskihl]

Except for the clone boots . Big failure rate.

Chyyyyna

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Last Stihl saw that had boot issues in any number was the ms 441, the boot issue with that saw was enough to pull it off the shelf and make another run of 440’s. Was made out of the wrong hardness of rubber they were cracking/not sealing. After they remade them right no more problems but it kinda ruined the 441’s reputation from the beginning and it never sold really well. I think they were a good saw overall minus being a pain to work on and kinda heavy.

 

[Mastermind]

Last Stihl saw that had boot issues in any number was the ms 441, the boot issue with that saw was enough to pull it off the shelf and make another run of 440’s. Was made out of the wrong hardness of rubber they were cracking/not sealing. After they remade them right no more problems but it kinda ruined the 441’s reputation from the beginning and it never sold really well. I think they were a good saw overall minus being a pain to work on and kinda heavy.

One of my favorite saws.

 

[Rich Fife]

I like the 441... there is enough room for improvements that this saw will be my next purchase for my personal collection.
I might test a Big Bore kit... and see how it responds.
Edit: If the new 400 has more torque... I'm all in on it.

 

[Rich Fife]

I like the 441... there is enough room for improvements that this saw will be my next purchase for my personal collection.
I might test a Big Bore kit... and see how it responds.

And as messed up as this is... I'd take a 441 over a 462... I typically take displacement any day of the week... but, with the 462s, I couldn't get the desired results out of them... by that I mean, I like to lean on a saw and for it to maintain the rpms... with the 441s I feel like I'm gaining in that aspect... ... The next round of work I will focus more attention on the camber work... I'm certain the 441 will be a stout 70cc saw when thats done.
I know my 044 with that 381 cylinder is a screamer. That's why I'm curious to see how the 441 bb kit will do... I don't think it have the results of an 044 bb... but, I gotta try and see what I like/dislike.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

One of my favorite saws.

And I can’t wait to run mine after I send it to you, should be soon on sending and whenever you have time to do no hurry on getting it back. Ill send money for the new top end at the same time as the saw

 

[Mastermind]

I typically take displacement any day of the week... but, with the 462s, I couldn't get the desired results out of them... by that I mean, I like to lean on a saw and for it to maintain the rpms

I was a little disappointed with the torque of the 462 as well....but I believe I've gotten a good recipe for it now. The amount of rpm it is holding in the cut is crazy.

 

[wiwalker06]

You want to talk about dumb designs, husky and the plastic intake block the carb on the 50,51,55 have is great. Point is they all have some design flaws but usually don’t see many boot issues on stihls.

I wasn't suggesting Husky doesn't have dumb designs. The plastic oiler on the 550n mk2 is one. It's just not a brand loyalty thing for me.
However, most of Stihls new design copy Husky xp design elements so that's telling to me.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I wasn't suggesting Husky doesn't have dumb designs. The plastic oiler on the 550n mk2 is one. It's just not a brand loyalty thing for me.
However, most of Stihls new design copy Husky's design XP elements so that's telling to me.

What are they copying exactly? The new intake style on stihls with the air injection is because the pattern went away. Yes the autotune may have been the start of mtronic but that’s because it’s a clean technology that Sweden made husky share for the good of the world by cutting pollution. Husky never did a lot of breakthrough development themselves over the years. Air injectection “turbo” was a jonsreds design that husky bought them to get. The stratto port design was also due to buying redmax from komatsu. Stihl i believe had the first av using rubber mounts in the 60’s which husky and the rest used for years before springs which yes now stihl has switched too. Bearings with the crank seal built in was used on the stihl 045, husky used to pull vacuum for impulse through the carb stack but now has impulse lines that Stihl put on years ago when they changed from the 040 to 041. Main two differences between an 040 and 041 non av is caged vs loose lower rod bearings and an impulse line vs pulling through carb stack. They all have gone to a line now far as i know because it’s better you don’t loose pulse on carb at times if a screw loosened up. The plastic block vs boot on the old stihls was more than enough of a pain bolts vibrating loose and sucking air at block. 041/075 ect. After they switched all to boots that went away, started boots on the 042/048 and others back in the 70’s. Certain 2 series huskies had the block and the jonsred had a boot guess what’s better? They all have boots of some form now that bolts or clamps to the cylinder. Fact is they copy each other and work with each other to make them both better. Sometimes they even copy each others not so good plans. I think husky will have an injection saw down the road using Stihl’s system as a basis.

 

[Rich Fife]

I was a little disappointed with the torque of the 462 as well....but I believe I've gotten a good recipe for it now. The amount of rpm it is holding in the cut is crazy.

That's a delicate touch... by that i mean, I'm listening to the tone of the saw while watching to see if the saw flexes during the cut.
If I allow the 462s to cut, using equally smooth pressure so the tone of the saw is consistent... they'll rip through the wood. I'd love to see that saw with a 20" and either a full chisel or skip tooth. A lot of guys around these parts run a 20-24" bar. Most of our big trees are within the towns/villages... or on Big private lots so the need/demand for big bars is minimal in my area. The local loggers say that they can do everything with a 20" bar that a guy can do with a 28" bar... but they can do it faster than a guy with a 28" bar.
I guess the smooth operators that allow the saw to do it's thing, like the 462s... I'm clumsy, heavy handed and like to push the saw through the cut so the between my lack of skill and the 462s lack of torque, its a hard no go for me.

 

[Tor R]

The only thing Husqvarna and Stihl don't copy from each other is what is patented.
But that they exchange technology with each other is quite obvious. It is also logical nowadays, when it is more required to be able to deliver products to different continents, that technology cooperation is a win-win for both of them.