MS400.1 c-m

[Rich Fife]

@Rich Fife idk why the guys in your area a puts 20inch bars on a 462 ? What I mean is that's 50-60cc territory unless I'm running an 8 pin. I've been using an ms362 with a 20" at work the last couple weeks and it's a good light saw, Hell my buddy runs his 562xp with a 24" ,would absolutely rock a 20"!

This area has been picked through over the years... I personally like and use a 24"-25" bar. I have 20-32" bars. These guys move and cut fast with their 20" bars.

 

[wiwalker06]

357 is a nice saw but wouldn’t exactly call it a torque monster but you’re 100% a husky guy because only Stihl that’s good is a husky copy. Actually more to a saw than speed in my experience the stihls have always seem to hold up better over time but might just be the guys I know. Most of the guys i work with have switched from husky to Stihl over last 8-10 years.

I own both brands and always have.
The 357 isn't a torque monster by any means, but it had more torque than a MS360.
What I have said about design elements is absolutely factual. It is what it is.
I have heard guys say Huskys are less reliable and its probably true of the newer nodels given the bearing issues. If the old ones were less reliable I never noticed. For instance when I was logging the 440 lasted about the same as a 372. Why wouldn't they. They use most of the same vendors for things like cylinders, bearings, etc.
FWIW Husky bearing issues gangway when you run more oil in them and I'm a 32:1 guy. Probably why I ran the snot out my verybearly 562 without issue.

 

[Woodpecker]

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I own both brands and always have.
The 357 isn't a torque monster by any means, but it had more torque than a MS360.
What I have said about design elements is absolutely factual. It is what it is.
I have heard guys say Huskys are less reliable and its probably true of the newer nodels given the bearing issues. If the old ones were less reliable I never noticed. For instance when I was logging the 440 lasted about the same as a 372. Why wouldn't they. They use most of the same vendors for things like cylinders, bearings, etc.
FWIW Husky bearing issues gangway when you run more oil in them and I'm a 32:1 guy. Probably why I ran the snot out my verybearly 562 without issue.

I agree if it wasn’t for making direct copies of a husky Stihl probably would be out of business right now. They’re both good and have always copied and shared since the 60’s. Echo and dolmar are great also it’s unfortunate dolmar is done since they were basically tied with Stihl for being the oldest chainsaw manufacturer but for some reason never caught on real well.

 

[Rich Fife]

IMO for a 60cc saw the 400C has lots of torque.

It has ok torque for a larger 60cc saw (67cc)... but, it's nothing I'd write home about when in stock form. Now, when these 400s are ported, I absolutely love them. They are by far the best in their class. Especially for their power to weight ratio. I've been saying this for 2-3yrs now.
I'm definitely looking fwd to getting my hands on a 400.1.

 

[wiwalker06]

I agree if it wasn’t for making direct copies of a husky Stihl probably would be out of business right now. They’re both good and have always copied and shared since the 60’s. Echo and dolmar are great also it’s unfortunate dolmar is done since they were basically tied with Stihl for being the oldest chainsaw manufacturer but for some reason never caught on real well.

Echo are fine saws, just antiquated performance wise. But they are cheap.
Dolmar just never had a dealer network.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Echo are fine saws, just antiquated performance wise. But they are cheap.
Dolmar just never had a dealer network.

Huh? What context are you using when you say "cheap"? Build quality or value?

I like talking "torque" and 60 cc saws. I like talking value as well so here goes:

Almost spent a grand on an ms 400 when I started my tree service company. Went 620pw instead: $592 with 27" bar and 2 chains. Later got a back-up cs 590, but ran the sht out of it this season! Made thousands of dollars off that darn 590-box-store-thing!. So BOTH saws were the price of a single ms 400.

But back to the 620pw vs 400:

620pw: over oils a 28" bar

400: can barely oil a 24" bar, gotta spend more money to get a proper oiler

620pw: phenomenal aluminum wrap handle.

400 plastic.

620pw: set of felling spikes

400: single felling spike (pathetic).

Could care less about the weight difference. A redesign will do stihl some good.

Dunno this dude, but a good unbiased comparison:
Cutting speed, that 620 torque and filthy-good oiler, 620 catches up and slapped the 400 in the big stuff:

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Ported, all 67 cc saws wig the fk out, burbling rich in the 14k rpm territory (no load).

Regardless of brand, they're made to rev. 50 mm bore x 34 mm stroke is a great fkn place to be:

 

[wiwalker06]

Huh? What context are you using when you say "cheap"? Build quality or value?

I like talking "torque" and 60 cc saws. I like talking value as well so here goes:

Almost spent a grand on an ms 400 when I started my tree service company. Went 620pw instead: $592 with 27" bar and 2 chains. Later got a back-up cs 590, but ran the sht out of it this season! Made thousands of dollars off that darn 590-box-store-thing!. So BOTH saws were the price of a single ms 400.

But back to the 620pw vs 400:

620pw: over oils a 28" bar

400: can barely oil a 24" bar, gotta spend more money to get a proper oiler

620pw: phenomenal aluminum wrap handle.

400 plastic.

620pw: set of felling spikes

400: single felling spike (pathetic).

Could care less about the weight difference. A redesign will do stihl some good.

Dunno this dude, but a good unbiased comparison:
Cutting speed, that 620 torque and filthy-good oiler, 620 catches up and slapped the 400 in the big stuff:

I was speaking to cost.
The plastic handle is more durable than aluminum. My 400C has a half wrap so it is aluminum. It also came with duel felling spikes.
The oiler on the 400C is stingy but can be made to oil more with a little Dremel work. For a 24 it's probably fine as is.
Youtube saw comparisons are almost universally garbage. I wouldn't bet any sort of money on a Echo 590 or 620 beating a 400C. In fact a friend who owns both told me it's not even close.
And the Echo is antiquated in AV, filtration, emmissions/fuel economy etc.
But like I said they are cheap and not for no reason.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Ummm, $1300 all up!?

Basic math here:
$1300 got me a like-new/used echo cs 6700, a new cs 590 and new 620pw.

Yeah I'll stick with antiquities and just keep churning butter once or twice.

 

[wiwalker06]

Ummm, $1300 all up!?

Yeah I'll stick with antiquities and just keep churning butter once or twice.

I bought my 400C when it first came out. I want to say I had $800 and change into it. The full wrap kit, I forget what I paid. Same story with the 461R oiler. If I spent $1500 all up it's still dirt cheap compared to my other main hobby, which is hunting. All things considered saws are a cheap hobby.

 

[EFSM]

I bought my 400C when it first came out. I want to say I had $800 and change into it. The full wrap kit ainforget what I paid. Same story with the 461R oiler. If I spent $1500 all up it still dirt cheap compared to my other main hobby, which is hunting. All things considered saws are a cheap hobby.

You can spend 1500 in a heartbeat on a scope, binos, or rangefinder.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Ummm, $1300 all up!?

Yeah I'll stick with antiquities and just keep churning butter once or twice.

I hate wraps personally but to each there own no way the stock echo runs with a 400, if you actually believe this your kidding yourself. How many years have you gotten out of the saws doing tree service work? Not saying echo isn’t good but your saws and the 400 are in completely different classes.

 

[wiwalker06]

You can spend 1500 in a heartbeat on a scope, binos, or rangefinder.

My binocular/Rangefinder cost over 3 grand.

 

[wiwalker06]

I hate wraps personally but to each there own no way the stock echo runs with a 400, if you actually believe this your kidding yourself. How many years have you gotten out of the saws doing tree service work? Not saying echo isn’t good but your saws and the 400 are in completely different classes.

An Echo 620 is also well over 700 now.
I dont have any problems with guys wanting to spend less money, just don't try to convince me the cheap saw is as good as the other option, because it's not.

 

[wiwalker06]

Ummm, $1300 all up!?

Basic math here:
$1300 got me a like-new/used echo cs 6700, a new cs 590 and new 620pw.

Yeah I'll stick with antiquities and just keep churning butter once or twice.

Everyone has their own standards. You do you.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Well this is an informative diversion from hobby saw to hobby hunting!

My saws are used to subsist (for heat, chain saw milled lumber and for income).

My guns are used to feed and my hunting is cheap, like walking distance from my homestead. September 2024:

 

[wiwalker06]

Well this is an informative diversion from hobby saw to hobby hunting!

My saws are used to subsist (for heat, chain saw milled lumber and for income).

My guns are used to feed and my hunting is cheap, like walking distance from my homestead. September 2024:

Cool.
And how did I know you would be a Ruger 77 guy.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Ummm, $1300 all up!?

Basic math here:
$1300 got me a like-new/used echo cs 6700, a new cs 590 and new 620pw.

Yeah I'll stick with antiquities and just keep churning butter once or twice.

Echo is a good saw and they are cheaper also, doesn’t seem they’re as much cheaper as they were because they have gotten more popular. I actually thought about opening a dealer for them but it’s way to much of an uphill battle to sell them against as you would put it “ the over priced ones” and husky. First thing was there had been echo dealers in the past here and a few of the local loggers that tried them back in that day had poor luck with them. This was also way back in the all metal John Deere era but the few that are still logging wouldn’t buy one again. The tree services that I know up here do run some 2511’s and one guy has a 620 but vast majority want the lightest most powerful saw in that size. Being a saw needs to sell how it is stock for stock echo just wouldn’t, when your on average the heaviest and slowest in stock form 85-90% of the guys don’t care it it’s 3-500$ cheaper because that’s absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. If both saws made it 5 years how much did you save over its life per year. Most look for the lightest most powerful in its clsss and will wait one more smaller tree job to have it paid for because saws of any brand are cheap when it comes down to it. They have all gotten cheaper than they were, my uncle bought an 041 in 1981 and he said it was 600$. Convert that to today and see what he paid for a 60cc saw. Glad your all in on echo and there good but you won’t convince very many that it’s a better choice than a comparable Stihl or husky because it’s cheaper because that’s what it has over the others in stock form. This is why I probably won’t try and sell echo after a long time debating it, husky sucks as a company to deal with as a dealer and Stihl & husky both want to have you carry 50,000$ plus in inventory so for a side business it’s just not feasible. Looks like I just have to continue repairing saws and maybe some mods later but have to see on that.

 

[EFSM]

My binocular/Rangefinder cost over 3 grand.

Yep. The combos are a pretty penny or two.