Which 2 cycle oil ratio???

[huskihl]

Amsoil said it would probably be "overkill"

Well, “underkill” doesn’t seem to be working real well so far, so…

 

[lilspenny]

Not sure about what you mean... There have been several oils that have been quite impressive.

 

[lilspenny]

With many of the veterans here that saw the oil testing done a few years ago and with all the recommendation since, dominator should’ve been at the top of your list.

I saw Richard Flagg's video and Dominator ran a bit dirty for him. Plus, the viscosity is a little low unless I run, say, 40:1???? I don't have anyone's experience to pull from... Dominator in a br800, that is. That being said, I will test it. I just haven't yet

 

[huskihl]

I saw Richard Flagg's video and Dominator ran a bit dirty for him. Plus, the viscosity is a little low unless I run, say, 40:1???? I don't have anyone's experience to pull from... Dominator in a br800, that is. That being said, I will test it. I just haven't yet

I don’t know why he had those results.. I and several others have posted pictures all over this forum after using 30–40 gallons of fuel mixed with dominator. There’s no carbon at all in the exhaust flange, just a brown liquid residue that wipes off

 

[ammoaddict]

I don’t know why he had those results.. I and several others have posted pictures all over this forum after using 30–40 gallons of fuel mixed with dominator. There’s no carbon at all in the exhaust flange, just a brown liquid residue that wipes off

Curious if the results would be the same in a 4 mix. I'm running it in mine but I only use a tank a year if that.

 

[lilspenny]

Curious if the results would be the same in a 4 mix. I'm running it in mine but I only use a tank a year if that.

Perhaps, but... With a 4-mix engine it's not easy to look in the crankcase, or at the rings to see what's what. I'm looking at the piston crown, the sparkplug, max rpm, temp, and "runability". While a chainsaw typically works at pretty much full throttle, 4-mix machines often work at reduced throttle. Not saying always, and not saying Dominator would or would not be fantastic in a 4-mix. I look forward to the testing. I've run about ten oils so far. What I've found so far is that several oils have been impressive. But .. not Schaeffer's 7000 boat oil. Not at all. It's now a paperweight. Oh, it also stinks worse than Stihl Ultra, imo. But it has impressed in the chainsaw world.

 

[bwalker]

Well, I've decided to not dilute H1R past 50:1 and I think 50:1 is too much H1R oil. Diluting H1R is off-label and throws a kink in the composition balance

H1r will work terrible in your 4mix.

 

[bwalker]

I saw Richard Flagg's video and Dominator ran a bit dirty for him. Plus, the viscosity is a little low unless I run, say, 40:1???? I don't have anyone's experience to pull from... Dominator in a br800, that is. That being said, I will test it. I just haven't yet

How did you determine the viscosity is " a little low"?
Richard Flagg is mostly full of chit.

 

[bwalker]

Perhaps, but... With a 4-mix engine it's not easy to look in the crankcase, or at the rings to see what's what. I'm looking at the piston crown, the sparkplug, max rpm, temp, and "runability". While a chainsaw typically works at pretty much full throttle, 4-mix machines often work at reduced throttle. Not saying always, and not saying Dominator would or would not be fantastic in a 4-mix. I look forward to the testing. I've run about ten oils so far. What I've found so far is that several oils have been impressive. But .. not Schaeffer's 7000 boat oil. Not at all. It's now a paperweight. Oh, it also stinks worse than Stihl Ultra, imo. But it has impressed in the chainsaw world.

The problem is you do not understand that many things influence the results your seeing other than oil.
Your testing is even worse than Eggshooters ridiculous tests.

 

[lilspenny]

The problem is you do not understand that many things influence the results your seeing other than oil.
Your testing is even worse than Eggshooters ridiculous tests.

Well

The problem is you do not understand that many things influence the results your seeing other than oil.
Your testing is even worse than Eggshooters ridiculous tests.

You outdid yourself on that one! A real mindreader, and one that has witnessed firsthand all that I have done! Dang! I'm surely glad God put you on this earth to set the record straight!

 

[bwalker]

Well
You outdid yourself on that one! A real mindreader, and one that has witnessed firsthand all that I have done! Dang! I'm surely glad God put you on this earth to set the record straight!

Listen, its quite apparent by the questions you ask that you dont have enough knowledge to doing any such tests.
Everyone is thinking it, the just havent said it. Im saying it.

 

[EFSM]

Listen, its quite apparent by the questions you ask that you dont have enough knowledge to doing any such tests.
Everyone is thinking it, the just havent said it. Im saying it.

Nor enough time to do them either. IMO, the only useful oil test is to run an engine for a long time (several hundred hours) and see what it looks like. An hour or two ain’t gonna nearly cut it. Even the 50 hr tests that the manufacturers do seem self-serving. There’s more to oil tests than how much carbon is built up too. One oil may burn clean but not protect well; the next may leave some carbon but protect very well; some are junk all around. Smell is in the (olfactory bulbs) of the (smeller), everyone will run equipment at different temperatures due to how it’s being used…in general too many variables for one person to give a lot of recommendations.

 

[lilspenny]

Ok, I appreciate your constructive criticism. Now I will just continue with my stupid testing and report my results. I'll face all naysayers and lump myself with others who do the same and those who wish can say that red bull, eggshooterist, and Lilspenny came up with pretty much the same conclusions and/or favorite oils so maybe.... Just maybe ..... Since those three guys have some common results they now have 2 things in common with each other. 1. They have common results... 2. You criticized their methods and/or knowledge. .... Now, if someone like you wants to criticize that's ok. If just one person besides myself benefits that's good. One thing for sure... If I have doubts I'll say so. Anything I report will be classified as eyeball opinion or measured results. Please continue to find our next club member.

 

[bwalker]

Nor enough time to do them either. IMO, the only useful oil test is to run an engine for a long time (several hundred hours) and see what it looks like. An hour or two ain’t gonna nearly cut it. Even the 50 hr tests that the manufacturers do seem self-serving. There’s more to oil tests than how much carbon is built up too. One oil may burn clean but not protect well; the next may leave some carbon but protect very well; some are junk all around. Smell is in the (olfactory bulbs) of the (smeller), everyone will run equipment at different temperatures due to how it’s being used…in general too many variables for one person to give a lot of recommendations.

That and you need to have a statistically valid sample size and tight controls over fuel, air to fuel mixture and operating cycle. Along with the correct instrumentation.

 

[bwalker]

Ok, I appreciate your constructive criticism. Now I will just continue with my stupid testing and report my results. I'll face all naysayers and lump myself with others who do the same and those who wish can say that red bull, eggshooterist, and Lilspenny came up with pretty much the same conclusions and/or favorite oils so maybe.... Just maybe ..... Since those three guys have some common results they now have 2 things in common with each other. 1. They have common results... 2. You criticized their methods and/or knowledge. .... Now, if someone like you wants to criticize that's ok. If just one person besides myself benefits that's good. One thing for sure... If I have doubts I'll say so. Anything I report will be classified as eyeball opinion or measured results. Please continue to find our next club member.

In the first place at least the other two used a two cycle engine for testing.
And just like Rebull tests and especially Eggshooter your results will be meaningless and highly likely not repeatable.
BTW Redbull found out that H1R sucked. It just took him a long time after I told him so to figure it out.

 

[lilspenny]

In the first place at least the other two used a two cycle engine for testing.
And just like Rebull tests and especially Eggshooter your results will be meaningless and highly likely not repeatable.
BTW Redbull found out that H1R sucked. It just took him a long time after I told him so to figure it out.

So, 4-mix machines are not only big sellers but even Echo is has revived their 4 stroke from the dump calling it their "next generation". I think it's past time for someone to report. Now, on to a scientific two stroke oil comparison... Please provide some link that shows independent testing with repeatable, and measurable data of 2 stroke oils. No eyeball stuff .. just comparison of brand against brand... scientifically measurable testing. Show us what there is. Then, if you can, the same using a 4-mix engine. The "next generation" according to Echo.

 

[bwalker]

So, 4-mix machines are not only big sellers but even Echo is has revived their 4 stroke from the dump calling it their "next generation". I think it's past time for someone to report. Now, on to a scientific two stroke oil comparison... Please provide some link that shows independent testing with repeatable, and measurable data of 2 stroke oils. No eyeball stuff .. just comparison of brand against brand... scientifically measurable testing. Show us what there is. Then, if you can, the same using a 4-mix engine. The "next generation" according to Echo.

Stihl sells lots of 4 mix stuff, but to say they are big sellers in the OPE world is over stating the situation. More two stroke stuff is sold, period. The 4mix was a bandaid by Stihl for getting behind in the two-stroke game as I mentioned earlier. The Echo you mention is an old Shindaiwa design. It may be the future for Echo and maybe the "next generation" is just marketing. All of Echos top of the line stuff is two stroke still.
As far as testing you described. You won't find that anywhere and you are not capable of doing so yourself.

 

[lilspenny]

Stihl sells lots of 4 mix stuff, but to say they are big sellers in the OPE world is over stating the situation. More two stroke stuff is sold, period. The 4mix was a bandaid by Stihl for getting behind in the two-stroke game as I mentioned earlier. The Echo you mention is an old Shindaiwa design. It may be the future for Echo and maybe the "next generation" is just marketing. All of Echos top of the line stuff is two stroke still.
As far as testing you described. You won't find that anywhere and you are not capable of doing so yourself.

So, my position is that so far no publicized oil testing has been good enough to pass the scientific criteria, so let's see what's out there. Guys like Richard Flagg... All eyeball stuff. But.. many people see it as valuable information. Even if Yamalube 2R, an oil favorite of mine, didn't do so well. I'm fully aware of what the market has consumed, and unfortunately I don't like the direction. I will say that I have owned many 2 strokes and a few 4 strokes and nothing has been more reliable/durable than my fs100rx 4-mix I purchased in 2005 that is ready to go to commercial service again. One valve adjustment in 2025 and that was the only one...It was very close to spec. I have no reliability or durability issues with Stihl except for one... The br800 of mine that just dropped a pushrod. Replaced under warranty. If it was to have been junked without replacement under warranty I would have bought an Echo pb-9010... Because the cam is not easily accessible on a 4-mix blower. My br800 was a gift. I think Stihl makes more refined
equipment as a whole, but that is just my opinion. I like all of the major brands. As far as the direction of future equipment that is clear. Manufacturers are already in gear with battery stuff. Pretty soon loggers will have battery backpacks.

 

[MtnHaul]

Pretty soon loggers will have battery backpacks.

I think this is both politically and technically unlikely. If switching to battery caused lumber prices to increase there would be massive blowback, and without a major improvement in battery technology I can't see anything replacing 50cc+ chainsaws. The MSA 300 chews through an AP500 battery in about 15 minutes of continuous use and the battery gets so hot it takes 50 minutes to cool down and then another 50 minutes for a fast-charge. Stihl even says to not use their battery backpack with the 300 so I think there is clearly some issue with thermal buildup. I briefly owned the MSA 300 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I'm not sure what the specs are on paper for battery life but cutting for production is not even a remote possibility with something like the MSA 300.

 

[EFSM]

I think this is both politically and technically unlikely. If switching to battery caused lumber prices to increase there would be massive blowback, and without a major improvement in battery technology I can't see anything replacing 50cc+ chainsaws. The MSA 300 chews through an AP500 battery in about 15 minutes of continuous use and the battery gets so hot it takes 50 minutes to cool down and then another 50 minutes for a fast-charge. Stihl even says to not use their battery backpack with the 300 so I think there is clearly some issue with thermal buildup. I briefly owned the MSA 300 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I'm not sure what the specs are on paper for battery life but cutting for production is not even a remote possibility with something like the MSA 300.

I think I’m safe in saying that loggers will never voluntarily carry a saw powered by electrolysis batteries. Maybe super capacitors, but no electrolysis based batteries have proven to be energy-dense enough to be viable for an application like logging, where weight, size, and cost are paramount for production, and above all, safety. Logging is dangerous enough, without loggers carrying batteries weighing 40 lb.