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When is skip better than full comp?

Discussion in 'Just Chains' started by kneedeepinsaws, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:18 AM.

  1. kneedeepinsaws

    kneedeepinsaws Well-Known OPE Member

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    I was remembering something I read a while back about how using full comp in large diameter wood slows down due to chips clogging the chain.
    Is there any truth to this?
    I use skip on all my bars 28” and up only because its just that many cutters less to sharpen. But I always wondered if a 28” bar buried in wood would cut faster with full comp or skip, given the saw has enough power to run both at the same speed.

    thx
     
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  2. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    1. Fewer cutters in the wood put less drag on the power head.

    If the saw has the power to pull it, not so much of an issue. But skip chain is often used to “increase“ the cutting capacity of a given saw.

    2. More space between cutters means the chain can clear more chips.

    Not an issue with smaller diameter wood, but on large logs, the chips have to be carried all the way through.

    Philbert
     
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  3. kneedeepinsaws

    kneedeepinsaws Well-Known OPE Member

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    So technically speaking a skip chain should cut faster and create less heat than a full comp in large diameter wood?
     
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  4. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    It’s going to depend on a number of factors. Including the type and condition of the wood, diameter, how aggressively the cutters and depth gauges are sharpened, etc.


    Philbert
     
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  5. huskihl

    huskihl Sausage Lives Matter

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    The general rule is skip for over 36. That is about the line where efficiency and speed versus having the ability to clear chips meet. Full comp cuts faster up to that point then full skip from what I’ve seen.

    Guys argue that skip is easier to sharpen with 1/3 fewer cutters, but with the fewer cutters doing all the work, it only makes sense that it’s going to get dull in 1/3 less time. Skip can also be a little bit grabby on smaller limbs
     
  6. Wolverine

    Wolverine Fruit wood champion

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    I agree w/ Kevin, full skip for 36" and up IME.


    www.madsens1.com/bnc_sequence.htm
    Our Advice

    Bars 24" & Under
    When running a bar length of 24" or less, full compliment is the best choice. It will always be the fastest and smoothest cutting sequence on short cutting attachments. Even those who are tempted to select a skip tooth configuration to reduce sharpening time, will find full compliment doesn't take much longer to sharpen. On short bar applications, there are are not that many more teeth.

    Bars 28" - 32"
    When running bar lengths of 28" to 32", the best sequence is less certain. In this range of bar lengths, the size of the cuts being made with the saw should to be taken into consideration when selecting the sequence. For example, sometimes longer bars are used to minimize bending on a job that requires a lot of limbing. In this case, the cuts are more similar to what would be done with short bars, so a full compliment chain is the best choice. On the other hand, if most cuts on the job require burying the bar in a deep cut, a skip sequence would probably be the best choice.

    Bars 34" & Longer
    When running bar lengths of 36" or longer, a skip sequence is usually the best choice. These bars are rarely run to eliminate bending over, and most often are used on jobs that require deep cuts. Even with these conditions, we do occasionally see full-compliment chain being run when the job also requires a fair amount of limbing. In the end, the best sequence for you requires some compromise and consideration of many factors.
     
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  7. dahmer

    dahmer Pinnacle OPE Member

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    This can also lead to difference in cutting times, setting raker height. I use a Husqvarna progressive raker gage and I assume the Stihl would be similar. You can’t set the leading edge of the raker gage on the bottom of the next tooth because that tooth isn’t there so you can’t get the correct raker height.
     
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  8. Cat 525

    Cat 525 Here For The Long Haul!

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    I am always bore cutting walnut and when the bar is fully buried in the butt cut skip works the best. I run mainly 28&32 bars!
    Kevin is correct on the dulling that he mentioned. In sandy or dirty conditions I switch back to full because it will stay sharp longer. Just my experience.
     
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  9. Cat 525

    Cat 525 Here For The Long Haul!

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    Get one of those longer Oregon raker gauges for your skip tooth. Easy to check your depth. If you don't have one message !email sometime.
     
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  10. Wolverine

    Wolverine Fruit wood champion

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    Link? I haven’t found anything skip specific for rakers. I use the same for full/skip. Seems to work fine.
     
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  11. kneedeepinsaws

    kneedeepinsaws Well-Known OPE Member

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    Wow that answered my question in great detail. Thanks guys!!
     
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  12. dahmer

    dahmer Pinnacle OPE Member

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    I know I thru it away but the instruction “sheet” that came with the Husqvarna gage specified not for use with skip chain.
     
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  13. KS Plainsman

    KS Plainsman Super OPE Member

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    When cutting stumps down to the ground, a 660 and 36" bar, full comp chain would get plugged up bad enough, I switched to full skip and don't have the problem anymore unless the tree is extra sappy and gummy.
     
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  14. Deets066

    Deets066 AKA Deetsey

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    I normally run full comp on 28”
    Semi skip is pretty nice on 32 & 36.
    After that it’s for sure full skip for me.
     
  15. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    I have never really understood semi-skip chain. I joke that it’s for guys who can’t make up their minds, but I know there is more to it than that.

    Smoother than full-skip? Falls in-between the two? Would like to hear from guys who choose it.

    Thanks.

    Philbert
     
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  16. mdavlee

    mdavlee Hillbilly grinder

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    Smoother and doesn’t grab little limbs and throw them into your shin as bad.
     
  17. huskyboy

    huskyboy Sorta a husqvarna guy...

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    I found .404 full comp clears chips better than 3/8 full comp. I think it’s because the spacing on full comp .404 is close to 3/8 skip and the larger cutters must help chip clearance as well. .404 takes power to pull it good though...
     
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  18. Wilhelm

    Wilhelm Here For The Long Haul! GoldMember

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    I have yet to run a true semi or full skip loop, but my hillbilly custom skip 115DL loop does not really outperform my non modified 115DL full comp loop - and vice versa.

    The way I see it it's a trade off and greatly depends on intended usage, as well as used saw and B&C setup.
    The way a loop is sharpened will also play a noticeable role.

    With my 36" 3/8" B&C setup fully buried in a log, both bucking and noodling, I often wish for a full skip loop to try.
    With the bar tip sticking out, any extend, both bucking and noodling, I feel no desire to source a full skip loop.

    I only have round tooth .404", but I concur it's a huge power hog.
    I hope to try .404" full chisel at some point, just for the fun of it as I don't really need it.

    The same goes for 3/8" vs .325", 3/8" is drawing more power than .325" - same saw, same tune, same bar, same log.

    Chip clearance, or the lack of it, at it's best. :)
    NOT a sequence readily available at Your local store, but it shows the issue of chip clearance beautifully. ;)
    P1050151.JPG P1050155.JPG P1050155-2.JPG P1050160.JPG
    I really need to find time to play with this beauty of a chain. :cool:
     
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  19. Al Smith

    Al Smith Pinnacle OPE Member

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    The saw in my avatar it doesn't make much difference skip or not .That old Homelite west coaster is an old red wood slayer .
     
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  20. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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