What oil is best? and what ratio?

[Czed]

Oil definitely matters.
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stihl ultra?

 

[rogue60]

Crikey, DEGREASER as a lubricant! Yeah, that's just plain weird, I wonder if the inside of the engine looked a lot cleaner. At least something like ATF has friction inhibitors in it. There's enough detergents in ATF that it was a common practice to put a quart of ATF in an engine's crankcase to try and free up sticky lifters (it often worked), but I doubt it would free up sticky rings in a two-stroke.

It was a ag bike not a high stress mx engine. Was over 20 years ago but I actually think the degreaser had some lub to it as there would have been no oil left in the engine after a few min.
It was like a kero degreaser but you wash off with water the smoke I think was it burning.
I never did pull the engine down but I did look through the exhaust port years later there was no scoring that I could see.

 

[rogue60]

I want to see a test where Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is used, also some 10-40 weight 4-stoke oil. I expect both would smoke more than a FD oil, but how about deposits and wear of the engine? I know both will lubricate a low output engine like a chainsaw and keep it from seizing, but what is the long term effects? Anybody game to give it a go?

Come on, does somebody have a crappy saw they are willing to dedicate to the test? Just mix up some ATF at their favorite ratio, fill the tank and flog the bugger.

4T oil long term might carbon up a saw but who knows with all the high-tech 4T oil out there now days it's nothing like the 4T oil they run in saw's years ago.

I've got a few old and cheap saw's I'd be fine with running Automatic Transmission fluid as a test.
I personly don't think it would do any harm short term myself under a few hundred hrs? It runs fine in power steering pumps so it has good film strength.

I might make up a mix of brake fluid and thinners as a real test see if I can actually seize a saw?

 

[Terry Syd]

That video reminded me of an exchange student from Africa that was living on our street. He had a bicycle with a little motor over the front wheel. He'd get the bicycle up to speed and push the engine down on the front tire - and off he went.

One day my brother saw him working on the engine and stopped by to take a look. The bloke was wondering why the engine performance was dropping off. My brother looked at the exhaust port and it was almost closed from carbon. He had been running 4-stroke oil in the engine at 16-1.

They cleaned out the exhaust port and all the power came back. - Then he was introduced to two-stroke oil...

 

[3browns]

Ill be doing some oil testing on a new string trimmer. Ill load up the spool, bump out till correct length. Do my normal heat cycle break in I've used since my days of 1/5 th scale rc racing, then it going to be clamped to a steel saw horse outside and ran wfo tank after tank on 90 e free and what ever oili start this "test" on.

Out of curiosity, what oils are in this upcoming torture test...

 

[3browns]

Well.....im going to use the oil I've been using for over 15 years first. It wasn't until these threads that I found out how "stupid" that was. Anyway, Blue Marble. Used it in all my 1/5 th scale race cars and ope since a fellow racer and hobby shop owner turned me into it. I have experienced personally the claims they make. Its a "universal" oil and isn't even synthetic. But its always worked so I never looked elsewhere till last few months.

It is indeed the lucky man that finds an oil that just "works" and calls it a day in the great "Oil Wars" and is content

 

[MustangMike]

It is indeed the lucky man that finds an oil that just "works" and calls it a day in the great "Oil Wars" and is content

AMSOIL Saber at 40:1!!!

 

[3browns]

AMSOIL Saber at 40:1!!!

Yup yup yup!!!

A SOLID choice

 

[3browns]

AMSOIL Saber at 40:1!!!

I used Saber at 32:1 for years with consistently excellent results in saws and other OPE

I tried Yamalube 2R because Randy recommends it (among others) and it was what I could get on eBay and have shipped to my location in Hawaii without buying cases of Saber, paying freight, etc

I would happily use either oil and would switch between the two gallon for gallon and never feel the need to pull a muffler or a jug to make myself feel good

I think having that secure warm fuzzy feeling is worth a lot

It may seem like a naive approach but my feeling is that people like @Mastermind, @MustangMike, @tree monkey, etc etc have spent the hours and gallons doing the research so why not learn from them

I don't need to reinvent the wheel to get the benefit of their work

I am past the stage in my life where I need or want to tinker

Keeping carbs adjusted for temp, elevation, etc and chains selected and sharpened to suit the species I am cutting is plenty of geeking out for me

YMMV

 

[3browns]

Im with you to a point. All my ope and even the rc race cars. They run like they should, no reason for a tear down. I will however have no issue blowing up a cheap weed eater or leaf blower. Or tearing it down for the good of the oil worshipping flock. Only reason im using a new one first go round is to see what that crappy, snake/ boat/ snowmobile/ universal oil I've been using really does to an engine from new. After that is onto saber at consistently leaner ratios until something goes.

Well, as you said, I am with you to a point

Not sure what the point of trying leaner and leaner ratios of Saber will accomplish unless it is simply in the name of "science"

I understand that Saber guarantees results up to 100:1 but...

Sorry, it's your show and you carry on as you see fit

 

[3browns]

I believe years of use and experience trumps a paper or label that says A won't work in B. Not advocating running boat oil in ope but im sorta doing it and apparently a well know saw porter runs "boat oil". Some previous post over this thread stated you can't judge an oil till you use it for years. Except if they don't agree, then 20 years means nothing. I use what works for me, not a blind fan boy of anything. If I find a better product, at least in my mind anyway, I'll switch.

I have a few quarts of the "boat oil" you are speaking of that I bought a while back from eBay on what had to have been an incorrectly priced and posted deal (6 qts shipped free for the price of 3 qts of anything else)

I trust the "porter" you speak of and trust the oil without ever having tried it

Once again, am I naive?

Maybe

Or the flip side is I am smart enough to trust a 20 year "experiment" that sure worked out for said porter

Yup, I will get flak for even buying "boat oil" but that's ok

As always, my caveat, YMMV

 

[3browns]

Just to see my friend. Just to see. Not only is saber supposed to be guaranteed to 100, supposedly it was tested in texas at some lab at 300:1 and passed but Amsoil knew 100:1 was going to be hard enough to get people to buy into. In my quality ope, its 3.5 oz to gallon no matter what my little test comes up with. For fun if you will.

For science, and stuffs

And OPE mayhem...

 

[3browns]

In my experience, proper tune, clean air filters, sharp chains, and oil ratio matter more than brand or type of oil.

Troof...

 

[3browns]

Almost forgot an important correction for the belief that dominator doesn't have rust inhibitor. I actually called the Amsoil technical department last week. I brought this up. He said Dominator oil has a full additive package which includes rust and corrosion inhibitors. He was honest, imo, because he also admitted..."not as much as some other oils". I asked "then whats the deal on the astrix about boat motors"? He said because engines designed for TW-3 oil can get ash deposits from running an oil designed for high heat applications. Frequent tear downs are recommended to inspect for build up and removal of said deposits. Nothing to do with rust. Maxima K2. Called them. They said absolutely there is corrosion and rust inhibitors in that oil as well. People need to keep in mind. Environment and using e10 gas greatly increase the chance of internal rust. Another point people loose track of. Fogging oils were around long b4 ester oils were in wide use. There is a reason. Some old school loggers in northern states would drain their gas, run carb dry and then pull the plug and fill the engine to the top with 30w motor oil. In the spring they would dump it out, rinse it with fresh mix and run it. Smoked like a crop duster to begin with. But, no rust in storage. My point is, no oil is a guarantee of a rust fee engine interior, nor is any type or brand of oil a guarantee you "will get rust". There is a reason the old loggers did that. Im guessing someone had a rusty bottom end way back then and took action. And like most things, it spread. Myself, I just start my stuff every couple weeks. I like to hear them run anyway.

Stabil Fogging Oil and Seafoam Deep Creep are staples in my OPE arsenal of lubricants as they were when we lived in the bush and were putting our snowmachines up on pallets for the summer

I left my new MMWS PS-5105 as well as my Hooski weed whip for just 5 weeks to come back up for the holidays and they got run dry and the living crap fogged out of them despite the fact we live in a relatively dry part of the island

I fogged my MS-210, my MMWS PS-7900, and my Echo SRM-225 a few days ago even though I did them all before I left in mid August and the MS-210 was the only saw I ran this trip for a bit of trail clearance

CHEAP insurance in my book and if a little is good a lot is better

 

[3browns]

I used to fog my dirt bikes. When i went to a tech school for diesel and auto mechanics in the late 80's they were telling us about this study. Don't remember what institution conducted it, but it was to see the effect of an engine setting unran and the resulting damage. It focused mainly on the bores. They were able to calculate how many hours, on average, you decrease the life of an engine from setting. 30 days was something like 40 hours if I recall it correctly. Been a long time. That number could be less or more. Don't beat me up if im to far off and someone finds that study. Not only was there rust forming at times but just being dry on start up causes excessive wear. The results prompted me to fog or run every couple weeks. Back then it was fogging. Of course a chrome or nickle bores in most ope and bikes really probably wont have those issues but rust in the bottom can happen.

My issue is I have OPE in Alaska and Hawaii and am frequently gone from one or the other for 6-8 months so stuffs have to sit

I agree that running periodically is best and totally believe your referenced study

Sadly, simply not an option for me

So I run stabilized gas through the system and dump the excess and idle to starvation and then I fog through the choke and down the plug hole

Then I hope for the best

P.S. I don't have ethanol gas in either place so there is that little bit of peace of mind

 

[3browns]

I've used seafoam. Not the creep stuff. The add to the gas stuff. That "snake oil" seemed to take care of a surging issue my gx335 deere garden tractor had. Saved me doing a carb teardown. Could be a kwinky dink or it works. Project farm seems to think so.

I use both, Creep for fogging and regular snake oil in my pre-mix as well as a bottle in my truck's fuel tank several times a year

 

[Dustin4185]

Your degreaser accident sounds a bit like the process of sucking a bottle of Seafoam in through a vacuum line and running at high idle

Smoke galore and supposedly washing out all the bad stuff from the carb/injectors through to the exhaust

My son has done it multiple times on multiple vehicles and never seized one up or shortened the life

I am not that brave and just put a splash in my premix and a bottle in my Toyota's gas tank a few times a year

I spray it into the carb throat on my Evinrude 25HP while under power. About kills all the fish near it!

 

[3browns]

I spray it into the carb throat on my Evinrude 25HP while under power. About kills all the fish near it!

We drilled a tiny hole in the airboxes of our snowmachines and stuck the straw in and sprayed while running as well until it choked out

Then pulled the plug and poured a cup or so of straight oil down the plug hole

Then we loosely put the plug in and gave the starter a couple short blips

Went years and years with never a problem

 

[3browns]

You have made several references to "heat cycling"

Please explain this process

 

[3browns]

Yeah, my experience on this and other saw forums has been that the break in vs run it like you stole it crowd is pretty much divided down the middle

MY TAKE has been that hobbyists talk about breaking in gradually and production cutters want to buy a saw, fuel it, and go to work and there is no place in the work environment for babying a saw

Obviously there will be exceptions to this rule

Anyone who has shot precision rifles can totally relate to your process...

One shot, scrub scrub scrub

Rinse and repeat many many times

Then 2 shots, etc etc

Then 3

Some people have the patience for this and probably your process as well

I don't flog the crap out of a new saw but my process is a hybrid of the two extremes