Tree Felling Technique Thread

[Shanesaw80]

Can i quote you twice ? This was a humboldt face followed by a regular back cut ,maybe 30% face cut ,left room for the wedges to go in all the way for lift ,it was a hill side so ground on other side of cut was about 8 feet down so cut it from the high side of the hill ,if i would have cut a deep face ,i would have ran out of room for pounding to get the tree to tip sideways on the hill ,this is where the wedges were when it went over ,i pounded it over with a 3 lb axe ,so there must be some math in there for lift vs speed vs something else ,or could just say the turtle was faster than the hare this time .so cut ,wedge ,cut some more pound some more ,keep cutting ,pound some more ,till it makes noise then step away and pull the saw out of the tree .View attachment 179125

Once you get your wedges set good you could always just finish your backcut and then pound your wedges to get the tree over. It’s fine to do it like you said, cut-wedge-cut-wedge-etc.... It just takes a whole lot more effort to pound those wedges in with an excessive amount of hinge still left. Once I have my wedges secure I complete my backcut and then wedge it over. Much easier to move the tree when your backcut is completed. Just a thought....

Those wedges in the picture are in there deep. With thicker bark it’s nice to shave the bark off the back first so your wedging completely into solid wood. With 3 wedges it’s also easy to pull 2 out and stack them while the 3rd offset wedge is holding your tree up to get more lift, makes life a little easier at times.

Great job getting it done, just throwing some things out there that may make your life easier.

 

[hseII]

Can i quote you twice ? This was a humboldt face followed by a regular back cut ,maybe 30% face cut ,left room for the wedges to go in all the way for lift ,it was a hill side so ground on other side of cut was about 8 feet down so cut it from the high side of the hill ,if i would have cut a deep face ,i would have ran out of room for pounding to get the tree to tip sideways on the hill ,this is where the wedges were when it went over ,i pounded it over with a 3 lb axe ,so there must be some math in there for lift vs speed vs something else ,or could just say the turtle was faster than the hare this time .so cut ,wedge ,cut some more pound some more ,keep cutting ,pound some more ,till it makes noise then step away and pull the saw out of the tree .View attachment 179125

I wasn’t fast enough on that last part Saturday evening , ( last Real Tree of the day), & mashed,(to the point of damage), the bar on sweetie.

I’ll straighten that out come the weekend.

I had to tickle the face after pounding wedges deep.

I’ll go over half way next time with the back cut first.


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[hseII]

Once you get your wedges set good you could always just finish your backcut and then pound your wedges to get the tree over. It’s fine to do it like you said, cut-wedge-cut-wedge-etc.... It just takes a whole lot more effort to pound those wedges in with an excessive amount of hinge still left. Once I have my wedges secure I complete my backcut and then wedge it over. Much easier to move the tree when your backcut is completed. Just a thought....

Those wedges in the picture are in there deep. With thicker bark it’s nice to shave the bark off the back first so your wedging completely into solid wood. With 3 wedges it’s also easy to pull 2 out and stack them while the 3rd offset wedge is holding your tree up to get more lift, makes life a little easier at times.

Great job getting it done, just throwing some things out there that may make your life easier.

Notes Taken.


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[junkman]

Once you get your wedges set good you could always just finish your backcut and then pound your wedges to get the tree over. It’s fine to do it like you said, cut-wedge-cut-wedge-etc.... It just takes a whole lot more effort to pound those wedges in with an excessive amount of hinge still left. Once I have my wedges secure I complete my backcut and then wedge it over. Much easier to move the tree when your backcut is completed. Just a thought....

Those wedges in the picture are in there deep. With thicker bark it’s nice to shave the bark off the back first so your wedging completely into solid wood. With 3 wedges it’s also easy to pull 2 out and stack them while the 3rd offset wedge is holding your tree up to get more lift, makes life a little easier at times.

Great job getting it done, just throwing some things out there that may make your life easier.

If i fall with the lean i do like you suggested ,this was 180 from the lean to go where i wanted it , thats why i cut pounded cut pounded , luckily i did not have to stack wedges ,it went over where they are in the picture. ,If i went the other way it would have hung up in the trees .every tree is different i guess .good info you posted .

 

[junkman]

I wasn’t fast enough on that last part Saturday evening , ( last Real Tree of the day), & mashed,(to the point of damage), the bar on sweetie.

I’ll straighten that out come the weekend.

I had to tickle the face after pounding wedges deep.

I’ll go over half way next time with the back cut first.


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I have got sick of pounding and nipped at the face too ,whatever works ,just dont go beyond your skill level ,they can go over backwards or roll off the stump real fast.

 

[hseII]

I have got sick of pounding and nipped at the face too ,whatever works ,just dont go beyond your skill level ,they can go over backwards or roll off the stump real fast.

My back cut was full of wedges.

The top had moved enough to fall but there was still too much holding wood: I’m still learning this back-cut-first business.

I was only going 1/2 rather than past half to 2/3rds like I’ve since learned.

Slow & Low for me Mista.


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[Cat 525]

Be grateful for plastic wedges, right!

 

[hseII]

Be grateful for plastic wedges, right!

Harrumph
Harrumph


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[junkman]

My back cut was full of wedges.

The top had moved enough to fall but there was still too much holding wood: I’m still learning this back-cut-first business.

I was only going 1/2 rather than past half to 2/3rds like I’ve since learned.

Slow & Low for me Mista.


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The more you experiment the more you learn ,if the hinge is in the middle it leaves less room for wedges before they bottom out and no room for the bar unless you bore in ,or cut the face deeper to get it to fall,thats sketchy though ,could cut the hinge too much and lose control of direction of fall,look at the pic i put up,its a 30 inch or so tree though but same rules for a 20 incher.

 

[Skeans1]

My back cut was full of wedges.

The top had moved enough to fall but there was still too much holding wood: I’m still learning this back-cut-first business.

I was only going 1/2 rather than past half to 2/3rds like I’ve since learned.

Slow & Low for me Mista.


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Make a mark for yourself with the bar tip or better yet a log crayon for your back cut depth I’ll do this when putting in a jack. 1/3 to 1/2 range for depth no two are the same or will react the same.


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[bitzer]

It's all feel for me boys... I'll bet I cut the same tree different on different days.

Small dbh and I need it to go one way, I've back cut all the way to the front sap wood and just scratched a face in.

Remember putting too much pressure on the hinge is a thing.

 

[~WBF]

Once you get your wedges set good you could always just finish your backcut and then pound your wedges to get the tree over. It’s fine to do it like you said, cut-wedge-cut-wedge-etc.... It just takes a whole lot more effort to pound those wedges in with an excessive amount of hinge still left. Once I have my wedges secure I complete my backcut and then wedge it over. Much easier to move the tree when your backcut is completed. Just a thought....

And here I was going to complement him on that very technique.
You are missing the concept of the practice. If done correctly then it's to be easier not harder. You are optimizing your situation when the tree is still in the self holding stages. I don't pound my guts out. Just alternate 2,3 or more thin wedges until they pressure up and repeat. You are not trying to lift the tree when you pressure the wedges up. That takes place as you cut more. If you have pressure on the wedges then you are not lifting the tree as the tree is still self held. When you start the next cycle you will find the pressure is gone. If you try to over pressure your wedges then you are wasting time and energy and in cases the wedges may even be sinking into the wood. It's all a soft touch.


If it doesn't have much back lean on 90' - 100' trees then that's fine then you don't need to utilize that advantage.

 

[Cat 525]

Be safe out there but don't over think and complicate the situation. Lots of variables out there and every tree is different! I just try to get the most out of the tree and do it as safe as I can without damaging other timber!

 

[bitzer]

And here I was going to complement him on that very technique.
You are missing the concept of the practice. If done correctly then it's to be easier not harder. You are optimizing your situation when the tree is still in the self holding stages. I don't pound my guts out. Just alternate 2,3 or more thin wedges until they pressure up and repeat. You are not trying to lift the tree when you pressure the wedges up. That takes place as you cut more. If you have pressure on the wedges then you are not lifting the tree as the tree is still self held. When you start the next cycle you will find the pressure is gone. If you try to over pressure your wedges then you are wasting time and energy and in cases the wedges may even be sinking into the wood. It's all a soft touch.


If it doesn't have much back lean on 90' - 100' trees then that's fine then you don't need to utilize that advantage.

I agree. Especially if you have enough back lean on a tree it can be tough to pound wedges the whole way if you haven't been working them in all along. It also helps you read the tree. If you keep cutting then tap wedge then repeat you can gauge how bad it's leaning or moving ahead or whatever. Save all the wedging til the end and that's pretty tough to know how much work you have to do, hinge you need, etc... Not saying I've never cut a tree up nearly all the way and then wedged. Depends on size and situation too. Just ease it in in some cases instead of forcing er in.

 

[Moparmyway]

I don't pound my guts out. Just alternate 2,3 or more thin wedges until they pressure up and repeat. You are not trying to lift the tree when you pressure the wedges up. That takes place as you cut more. If you have pressure on the wedges then you are not lifting the tree as the tree is still self held. When you start the next cycle you will find the pressure is gone.

^^ THIS ^^

 

[Shanesaw80]

I agree. Especially if you have enough back lean on a tree it can be tough to pound wedges the whole way if you haven't been working them in all along. It also helps you read the tree. If you keep cutting then tap wedge then repeat you can gauge how bad it's leaning or moving ahead or whatever. Save all the wedging til the end and that's pretty tough to know how much work you have to do, hinge you need, etc... Not saying I've never cut a tree up nearly all the way and then wedged. Depends on size and situation too. Just ease it in in some cases instead of forcing er in.

I completely agree it depends on size and situation. Bigger timber I will absolutely work my wedges in with my backcut, alternating back and forth. The problem is when dealing with small diameter timber like the guy was talking about you have little room to work with. I’ve watched too many people try and work their wedges in behind their saw and drive them tight to their bar getting everything stuck because they weren’t paying attention to how deep their wedges were. Now they have to try and back the wedges out to cut more or get their saw out. We’re not talking wedging big trees, the question was small diameter trees cutting the backcut first where you have limited room to begin with, larger diameter you don’t have to do this and thus have more room to work with.

Again it’s all about doing a proper assessment and knowing your limitations and skill level. I’m all about what requires the least amount of effort to get this tree down safely.

 

[junkman]

Great discussion guys.

 

[bitzer]

I completely agree it depends on size and situation. Bigger timber I will absolutely work my wedges in with my backcut, alternating back and forth. The problem is when dealing with small diameter timber like the guy was talking about you have little room to work with. I’ve watched too many people try and work their wedges in behind their saw and drive them tight to their bar getting everything stuck because they weren’t paying attention to how deep their wedges were. Now they have to try and back the wedges out to cut more or get their saw out. We’re not talking wedging big trees, the question was small diameter trees cutting the backcut first where you have limited room to begin with, larger diameter you don’t have to do this and thus have more room to work with.

Again it’s all about doing a proper assessment and knowing your limitations and skill level. I’m all about what requires the least amount of effort to get this tree down safely.

Right I guess it's a matter of dbh we're talking here. Small stuff say 14" and under you'd want to back cut most of it and snug a wedge up tight before putting the face in, on a back leaner I'm saying. It also depends on what size wedges you run. I typically have two 10" and a 12" in my pouch. Often one of the 10" is busted off so once I get enough lift I swap out my good 10" for the beater. Smaller wedges in smaller diameter a guy can get away with more. I typically knock the smaller crap out with the next tree unless there's a specific reason not to.

It can be fun when you realize that you've misjudged the lean and she starts sitting ahead as you're facing it after you've already back cut it all the way. There have been times I could only scratch a couple kerfs in just for relief and then maybe snip it off the back side as it gets ahead.

 

[junkman]

And there is always falling into the wind with no wedges in your back pocket ,would have been worth a walk back to the truck .I now don't cut anything without wedges near by ,was doing fine till the one gust cracked the hinge and blew this cedar back on my bar .Don't do this . I had to recut the tree above this cut to get it down ,did not lose the bar ,pinched the nose rails some but my bar wrench was able to open them back up .On some saws with inboard clutches you can remove the powerhead so don't smash your saw if things decide to go wrong ,think i had an ms440 on this one .

 

[Cat 525]

My luck with a pinch like that it will tweak the bar right where it rivets on bar! Weakest point I think. Anyway been there done that! And the wind won't ever gust back the other direction! Ha ha