Tree Felling Technique Thread

[Cat 525]

Sure is nice to have those in board clutches like you mentioned!

 

[Shanesaw80]

View attachment 179335
And there is always falling into the wind with no wedges in your back pocket ,would have been worth a walk back to the truck .I now don't cut anything without wedges near by ,was doing fine till the one gust cracked the hinge and blew this cedar back on my bar .Don't do this . I had to recut the tree above this cut to get it down ,did not lose the bar ,pinched the nose rails some but my bar wrench was able to open them back up .On some saws with inboard clutches you can remove the powerhead so don't smash your saw if things decide to go wrong ,think i had an ms440 on this one .

Sometimes you can stick your bar wrench in the bar stud slot and pull it out while the tree sits on your chain. Other times there’s just to much weight and back lean and it’s completely stuck lol

 

[junkman]

Sometimes you can stick your bar wrench in the bar stud slot and pull it out while the tree sits on your chain. Other times there’s just to much weight and back lean and it’s completely stuck lol

This was years ago ,i think i had to loosen the adjuster screw after got the bar nuts off, i i think it was tight on the sprocket still.

 

[Coltont]

I agree. Especially if you have enough back lean on a tree it can be tough to pound wedges the whole way if you haven't been working them in all along. It also helps you read the tree. If you keep cutting then tap wedge then repeat you can gauge how bad it's leaning or moving ahead or whatever. Save all the wedging til the end and that's pretty tough to know how much work you have to do, hinge you need, etc... Not saying I've never cut a tree up nearly all the way and then wedged. Depends on size and situation too. Just ease it in in some cases instead of forcing er in.

You just said alot of good things. Very many.

 

[bitzer]

You just said alot of good things. Very many.

Well I didn't want to come on too strong...
yet.

 

[bitzer]

Once in a while you can get a brand new slim tapered wedge in right by where it sat down on your bar. There's sometimes a little room there. Otherwise you can just be screwed and have to go back for another bar or saw. I'll bore into the same kerf in the back far enough to get a full wedge in, usually a slim tapered one to start lifting the tree again and then get another one started next to it in my original back cut. Once you've got the bar out you're golden.

 

[bitzer]

Also if your bar is stuck in the tree but not buried I'll take a wedge in one hand (narrow edge side in my palm) and hold it perpendicular to the bar rail. Then I'll hit the other side of the wedge with my axe back and forth until it wiggles out.

 

[~WBF]

I agree. Especially if you have enough back lean on a tree it can be tough to pound wedges the whole way if you haven't been working them in all along. It also helps you read the tree. If you keep cutting then tap wedge then repeat you can gauge how bad it's leaning or moving ahead or whatever. Save all the wedging til the end and that's pretty tough to know how much work you have to do, hinge you need, etc... Not saying I've never cut a tree up nearly all the way and then wedged. Depends on size and situation too. Just ease it in some cases instead of forcing er in.

Yes for sure, If you don't do cycles of cutting and reloading your wedges then you are throwing away your advantage of easy wedging stages that aren't always there at the end. There is a fine line on trees you do it on and or over doing it too early when not needed in that stage. Ultimately you want to be one step ahead so when the weight is transitioning as we cut they are preloaded for a lift. The mindset at this stage has to be, if it has the ability to set back with all that wood then it must have the ability to go forward. This is the stage you are talking about getting a gauge on how hard the lift will be before it is completely cut up.

I guess it's one of many feels that you get by production falling. As we say : "It will talk to ya".
It happens a lot and is likely a tree that I've convinced myself that is going to start out hard pounding once it's fully cut up and I get a feel for the wedge movement on the last cycle or so. The leverage is drastically increasing as the wedge points and holding wood distance increases . Basically more wedge movement = less lift per movement = easier and you are moving further so it can't be a bad sign.
When nothing seem to change then you know you are in for a good one.
Not a lot of leverage when the wood is close to the wedge still with feet left to cut. It is a enough to load up the fibers and repeat or wait a bit longer after you set them. It's all a bit different.

As you mentioned, you would have further to move it. The first stage of the lift is for sure the hardest once the tree is all cut up so it gets you off the ground floor a head of time.

Sometimes smaller trees can be the hardest just by the distance it moves on short leverage points especially if they sat back without your saw in there. They sure sit back further too. I tried wedging small Hemlocks saplings that sat back from the side by the hinge and the axe just bounced off with a new 10" k&h. The top sags over too. Pine I can do it with taller spindly ones with top sag.

An 8" back cut to undercut of tree will move three times what a 2ft will and 6 times what a 4ft will.
You only going to move about 2° and thats a stack wedge with a 4ft back cut . A bit more limiter anyway with 170ft of overhang.

 

[junkman]

I never hear anyone say "Timber" when the tree starts to tip anymore .

 

[Cat 525]

It's when they holler LOOK OUT that your in trouble! Hate working with people like that! Don't keep em around long.

 

[bitzer]

Yes for sure, If you don't do cycles of cutting and reloading your wedges then you are throwing away your advantage of easy wedging stages that aren't always there at the end. There is a fine line on trees you do it on and or over doing it too early when not needed in that stage. Ultimately you want to be one step ahead so when the weight is transitioning as we cut they are preloaded for a lift. The mindset at this stage has to be, if it has the ability to set back with all that wood then it must have the ability to go forward. This is the stage you are talking about getting a gauge on how hard the lift will be before it is completely cut up.

I guess it's one of many feels that you get by production falling. As we say : "It will talk to ya".
It happens a lot and is likely a tree that I've convinced myself that is going to start out hard pounding once it's fully cut up and I get a feel for the wedge movement on the last cycle or so. The leverage is drastically increasing as the wedge points and holding wood distance increases . Basically more wedge movement = less lift per movement = easier and you are moving further so it can't be a bad sign.
When nothing seem to change then you know you are in for a good one.
Not a lot of leverage when the wood is close to the wedge still with feet left to cut. It is a enough to load up the fibers and repeat or wait a bit longer after you set them. It's all a bit different.

As you mentioned, you would have further to move it. The first stage of the lift is for sure the hardest once the tree is all cut up so it gets you off the ground floor a head of time.

Sometimes smaller trees can be the hardest just by the distance it moves on short leverage points especially if they sat back without your saw in there. They sure sit back further too. I tried wedging small Hemlocks saplings that sat back from the side by the hinge and the axe just bounced off with a new 10" k&h. The top sags over too. Pine I can do it with taller spindly ones with top sag.

An 8" back cut to undercut of tree will move three times what a 2ft will and 6 times what a 4ft will.
You only going to move about 2° and thats a stack wedge with a 4ft back cut . A bit more limiter anyway with 170ft of overhang.

Yes sir small diameter will make anyone look foolish.

Jacking really isn't all that different from wedging either as far as movement of wood and how much is cut up and when. You can really tell the work wedges do when you've jacked a few trees. You would never set a jack in a tree, get it cut up all the way, and then try to lift it. No friggin way. Little by little. Pump the handle, tap the wedges snug, cut/nip the wood, repeat.

 

[bitzer]

I never hear anyone say "Timber" when the tree starts to tip anymore .

I've got one or two on video somewhere. I said it once, someone else said it once. Mine was more of a joke, because the wife of the landowner insisted she take video of me jacking one over. She was standing about 100 yards away. It was on the small side (20" or so)and the jack was pretty near the hinge. It took 15 minutes of screwing around to put it down. I had a road behind and narrow window to put it in. I was so frickin happy when it started to go finally I had to yell timber. That and they were standing so far away it was comical.

 

[junkman]

I've got one or two on video somewhere. I said it once, someone else said it once. Mine was more of a joke, because the wife of the landowner insisted she take video of me jacking one over. She was standing about 100 yards away. It was on the small side (20" or so)and the jack was pretty near the hinge. It took 15 minutes of screwing around to put it down. I had a road behind and narrow window to put it in. I was so frickin happy when it started to go finally I had to yell timber. That and they were standing so far away it was comical.

I have never jacked one over yet ,it looks time consuming.

 

[bitzer]

I have never jacked one over yet ,it looks time consuming.

It's really not that bad as long as it's not too windy. It takes patience more then anything.

 

[Skeans1]

I have never jacked one over yet ,it looks time consuming.

There’s days a jack is a hell of a lot faster then pounding wedges, the worst part is packing everything out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bitzer]

Woods has been wet since break up so I've been finding work in town. Big ugly Chinese elm.

 

[Cat 525]

Should have got the guy that brought them from China! Wood quality is about like their chainsaw stuff!

 

[Coltont]

Woods has been wet since break up so I've been finding work in town. Big ugly Chinese elm.

View attachment 179833

You've been running 390s for a while. They are new to me. The run really well but it seems like all I get done doing is replacing parts.

 

[~WBF]

This was a humboldt face followed by a regular back cut ,maybe 30% face cut ,left room for the wedges to go in all the way for lift ,it was a hill side so ground on other side of cut was about 8 feet down so cut it from the high side of the hill ,if i would have cut a deep face ,i would have ran out of room for pounding to get the tree to tip sideways on the hill

I am not sure how it could ever be a concern on a 30" full length green tree. Anyway I get the point. Why do you want a deep undercut when you are wedging unless they are light without dangerous tops or stubbies when you want to manipulate the weigh and or tip them quicker. It can be OK on bigger green tree if it's really close one way or the other to try and sway the center of gravity your way. If you miss she will kick over quick without too much trouble. Guide lines are 25% target so then consider your situation.
So if you have serious lifting then you are just making your wedging harder or not doable?
I have wedged as many trees from the side as I have from the back. You can do it from the side just 1/4" in from the back on a solid tree at times. That's why I use the k&h 10" mainly and 12" Nothing shorter. They have the rounded head so you can steer them from the corner naturally. Some other brands do too but I prefer them. They get you out of pinches easy. 12" will work when a 10" keeps grabbing your chain when clearance is tight.
You could do your own corner rounding on wedges but...?
I heard you say before that you own some K&H ??
I never have this trouble and haven't since I started using all longer wedges 15 yrs ago with round heads.
You should be able to burry a 10" wedge in a 16" . You can start them sideways right at the very back to hold it then turn it in if you want.

,this is where the wedges were when it went over ,i pounded it over with a 3 lb axe ,so there must be some math in there for lift vs speed vs something else ,or could just say the turtle was faster than the hare this time .

I see an assortment of wedges in which none are lifting wedges. The thicker 12" should be a chasing/ release wedge and the sleek 10" K&H are leading/lifting wedges.
So I would set up my wedges tight together if possible at the back of the tree and the same direction driving in the direction of the fall if it works from your swing point. A lot of people can't get them to rifle straight when only the one side is loading up so they set them with the curvature of the tree. If they are lined up then your swing stays the same. If I want to set two at the back then each wedge goes inside edge to the center so the outside leading edge may be away from the tree yet. Problem is they will take the path of least resistance and want to turn out. So I lightly tap the inside top then start the second one up against it. Just so they stay there and are even and straight then I crack both inside tops together. Two at once stops them from turning in if you hit too far to the inside. Now you have two fences so you don't have to be accurate when adding more as you stay to you inside or wait for the gap to open a bit more.
I carry three 10" and a 12". That's two stacks and one release wedge if needed. If I chase with the 12" then it's placed the furthest away as it will always be higher than the other top and out of the way of the swing to your leading wedges.

The other wedges you have are either 8 or 10" and as thick as the 12" .They are even steeper as they are shorter. It's a bit of a dogs breakfast going on. There is no system here?



As far as the math... Turtle vs hare analogy.
Well you half your back cut you double your distance the tree will move.
So if I have a tree 12" diameter and one 6" diameter and cut 12" off the 12" and 6" off the 6" tree: The bottoms of the blocks represent the back of the tree to the undercut. 6" back cut & hinge vs 12" back & hinge.
If you put a 1" wedges under both blocks then they both reach the same offset of 1"
but the 12" block takes double the height to reach an equal offset...and so on...
If you want a guide then eyeball up your tree the same distance of wtf ever the back of tree to desired undercut may be
then plump down using a tape or stick or wedge for a straight edge. The gap to the tree is the gap you have to overcome with your wedges.( *Minis saw kerf from wedges)
It's another trick that can help dial people in closer for a better perspective. Many things to consider.

So if that was a 32" tree.
50℅ vs 25℅ undercut
24" 'back cut' vs 16"
Difference of 1/3
So a wedge will move a tree with a 50 % undercut 33% further than a tree with a 25% undercut but it doesn't mean the wedge will penetrate half as far per hit?
It's just gears man, but you only get to pick one when you drive up the hill?
How much weight are we pulling?
I like my low gears

 

[bitzer]

You've been running 390s for a while. They are new to me. The run really well but it seems like all I get done doing is replacing parts.

What are you replacing? I've been running them exclusively for 7 years now. I usually buy one a year and sell the old ones off to firewood guys.

As far as how they run- I port em as soon as I get em. And open the muffler wide. Stock I'm not impressed. I've thought about getting the air filter stack set up because it they feel like they need to breathe more. I like stihls too and that's what I started with but the dealer closest to me ran huskys. I kind of just fell into them. The best part is I don't even go to that dealer anymore.