HELP! Tractor size

[Bill G]

I would not put a 6ft mower on anything less than a true 50 HP tractor. The horsepower that all companies rate stuff at today is grossly inflated. I miss the days of real testing at the Nebraska test lab.

 

[Bill G]

Yeah I’ve heard you tell that story before Bill. Mines been good. I’ve also heard many other happy customers tell their stories about them. I’ve also heard plenty of other folks tell their share of horror stories about Deere, and Kubota, and, and, and… let’s not turn this into a brand war. Copy?

As for horror stories on Deere tractors my brother dropped a huge sum on a new one back some years back. The daym thing was a huge POS. The ended up replacing it with a new one. He still wears his green undies though and buys Deere......to the tune of new dozers.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I would not put a 6ft mower on anything less than a true 50 HP tractor. The horsepower that all companies rate stuff at today is grossly inflated. I miss the days of real testing at the Nebraska test lab.

It’s not that they’re really inflated, they still need to meet test standards and actually make the hp stated. The thing is most of the new tractors like my John Deere are using small relatively short stroke motors with small rotational mass ect so they don’t make the torque the old stuff did. My tractor is a 1 liter 3 cylinder diesel that puts out its 24.8 hp at 3200 rpm and basically has no mass to anything on the engine so they don’t lug like the old stuff need to keep rpm up.

 

[Bill G]

As others have mentioned go for what is supported well near you. I have a Kubota dealer 15 miles away and a Deere dealer 20 miles away. I don’t like the hydro pedal on the Kubota but love that they all have a regular skid steer quick attach on the loader from the factory. I like a few things about the Deere better but ultimately it came down to support. The Deere dealer has been great to work with for the last 30yrs and the Kubota dealer is smushed in with a CNH dealer and those guys don’t seem to know if they’re coming or going some days. At least that’s how it’s been the last few times we’ve needed something for our red stuff it was a major pain in the rump to get support outside of business hours. I told the parts manager that tractors have lights so we can work in the dark and their building’s all have lights inside so they can find me parts in the dark. That went over well and ended with me running 5hrs away to a different dealer group that answered on a Saturday at 8pm and met me at their shop to get the parts I needed for my combine. Not a brand hate thing at all, just a local dealer group being hard to work with that happens to deal with red and orange so I’ve been leaning green lately. It’s all expensive so get what can be supported by people you like.

Sadly we no longer have CIH dealers here.

 

[Bill G]

It’s not that they’re really inflated, they still need to meet test standards and actually make the hp stated. The thing is most of the new tractors like my John Deere are using small relatively short stroke motors with small rotational mass ect so they don’t make the torque the old stuff did. My tractor is a 1 liter 3 cylinder diesel that puts out its 24.8 hp at 3200 rpm and basically has no mass to anything on the engine so they don’t lug like the old stuff need to keep rpm up.

With all due respect under what test standard?

 

[Jusgunn3]

I am going to visit a couple dealers on Monday to get a feel for size and prices. I am not stuck on a brand of course but willl report back with what I find, thanks all!

 

[Dustin4185]

As others have mentioned go for what is supported well near you. I have a Kubota dealer 15 miles away and a Deere dealer 20 miles away. I don’t like the hydro pedal on the Kubota but love that they all have a regular skid steer quick attach on the loader from the factory. I like a few things about the Deere better but ultimately it came down to support. The Deere dealer has been great to work with for the last 30yrs and the Kubota dealer is smushed in with a CNH dealer and those guys don’t seem to know if they’re coming or going some days. At least that’s how it’s been the last few times we’ve needed something for our red stuff it was a major pain in the rump to get support outside of business hours. I told the parts manager that tractors have lights so we can work in the dark and their building’s all have lights inside so they can find me parts in the dark. That went over well and ended with me running 5hrs away to a different dealer group that answered on a Saturday at 8pm and met me at their shop to get the parts I needed for my combine. Not a brand hate thing at all, just a local dealer group being hard to work with that happens to deal with red and orange so I’ve been leaning green lately. It’s all expensive so get what can be supported by people you like.

Dealers like that are becoming a thing of the past. Being able to get what you need early and be back to work ASAP is important. I live in the sticks and my closest Deere dealer is an hour away. They suck and always want to hit you with the “machine down” freight. Another dealer is 1:20-1:30 away and will get me most parts next morning if they are in stock in Atlanta. No extra freight, no extra fees, nothing. Parts manager is there by 6:30 and emails me if my parts came in. I can have a guy on the way to pick them up before he leaves his house since he lives closer to the dealer. All that to say, DEALER SUPPORT is very important.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

With all due respect under what test standard?

They still dyno test the engines for emissions purposes and last I checked the definition of a hp hasn’t changed. I will also say I’m sure a similar weight and hp tractor from the 50-60’s won’t pull any more then my 2025r. It wiill definitely sound different because of the rpm in need to run mine at and I’ll have to not and may need to let up on the hydrostatic pedal to limit ground speed but I really dont think there would be much difference. I do know the old tests your talking of about draw bar and pto hp and have read many.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Beware of Mahindra or other brands like Branson, TYM, Kioti, etc. What inevitably happens is the dealer drops them for the next big budget brand and then you are stuck dealing with TractorBob or some other website trying to source parts. Thats if you do your own wrenching. My technician has a Mahindra, parts are high and sometimes NLA. Deere, Kubota, and Case/New Holland are the only ones I would look at and I would lean towards an orange one! Like saws, the dealer support means a lot.

Lack of reliable and long-term parts supply has often been the cause. IF the U.S. implements a tariff policy parts supply might get worse.

Brands aside, @Bill G touched on the point that quality for some "budget" and less commonly "non-budget friendly" brands has been slipping. If a new tractor needs warranty repair and parts are nine months out the machine is down for nine months. If the replacement part is poorly designed an owner might be facing buying and stocking several of the parts themself, or stocking multiples of all the parts that commonly fail for that brand (a little extreme unless you have to have a running machine, like farmers).

Another consideration: are you allowed to fix it? There's a "right to repair" battle being waged in court because a certain brand refuses to let owners reset computer error codes; the tractor either won't run or runs in limp mode until the code is reset. What happens is something breaks (maybe very simple like a wiring connector pops off), the owner fixes it, the computer may recognize the problem no longer exists but won't reset the code so the tractor has to be taken to a dealer who possibly won't reset the code because that dealer didn't do the work and supply parts. If the dealer will reset the code it still costs the owner time and transport both ways (and maybe a diagnostic fee) because D-I-Y isn't under warranty (neither are "normal wear parts").

 

[Woodpecker]

As for horror stories on Deere tractors my brother dropped a huge sum on a new one back some years back. The daym thing was a huge POS. The ended up replacing it with a new one. He still wears his green undies though and buys Deere......to the tune of new dozers.

I just had a buddy have to source a used transmission for his 3130 Kubota because parts are nla. I had a cousin quit a very good paying engineering job with case/new holland because they wanted him to design parts that would fail and need service prematurely. They designed the failure right into the tractor, and had to do so to keep up with other manufacturers doing the same sort of thing. It’s a common practice in manufacturing these days.

Is a case/new holland (rebadged LS) any worse than a Deere, Kubota, Kioti, etc.? Nah, they all turn out the occasional polished turd.

But let’s get back to the point of the thread which was to help the OP pick a tractor to fit his needs shall we?

@Jusgunn3 what others have said is very true. You pick the dealer not necessarily the tractor. The three largest tractor brands are currently Kubota, John Deere, and Kioti. Those brands are going to give you the best shot at finding a good dealer near you. Near you is an important point. Big tractors take some effort to haul in for service.

From what you’ve said you need to do on your property you should look at a 50+ hp machine. Get the rear tires loaded with rim guard or similar right off the bat.

When you go to the dealer start at the service department. Talk those guys up before the sales guys get a hold of you. See if they are friendly and helpful. Because it’s the service department that will be taking care of you once you spend you hard earned money.

Are you cutting hay in your pastures? Do you have a lot of obstacles to mow around or is it fairly wide open?

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

With all due respect under what test standard?

I think it's emissions classification (based on EPA definitions) vs working HP*. I have a 23 HP tractor according to EPA regs which the manufacturer states they consider 21 HP, so there's some disagreement there.

*maybe Gross vs Net and other factors?

 

[Ryan Browne]

I am going to visit a couple dealers on Monday to get a feel for size and prices. I am not stuck on a brand of course but willl report back with what I find, thanks all!

It's a well documented phenomenon that tractors shrink when you get them home. Just something to know when you sit on a machine on the dealer's lot. It'll feel big, but after an hour at home it won't feel that big anymore.

 

[redneckhillbilly]

tractors are soo handy when you buy one you will wonder how you made it through life without owning one, I use mine for everything, even little things like lifting up the trailer so I can check/adjust bearings, loading/unloading stuff into the truck, my first tractor was life changing for me, and Ill never go back to not having one.

 

[Jusgunn3]

I just had a buddy have to source a used transmission for his 3130 Kubota because parts are nla. I had a cousin quit a very good paying engineering job with case/new holland because they wanted him to design parts that would fail and need service prematurely. They designed the failure right into the tractor, and had to do so to keep up with other manufacturers doing the same sort of thing. It’s a common practice in manufacturing these days.

Is a case/new holland (rebadged LS) any worse than a Deere, Kubota, Kioti, etc.? Nah, they all turn out the occasional polished turd.

But let’s get back to the point of the thread which was to help the OP pick a tractor to fit his needs shall we?

@Jusgunn3 what others have said is very true. You pick the dealer not necessarily the tractor. The three largest tractor brands are currently Kubota, John Deere, and Kioti. Those brands are going to give you the best shot at finding a good dealer near you. Near you is an important point. Big tractors take some effort to haul in for service.

From what you’ve said you need to do on your property you should look at a 50+ hp machine. Get the rear tires loaded with rim guard or similar right off the bat.

When you go to the dealer start at the service department. Talk those guys up before the sales guys get a hold of you. See if they are friendly and helpful. Because it’s the service department that will be taking care of you once you spend you hard earned money.

Are you cutting hay in your pastures? Do you have a lot of obstacles to mow around or is it fairly wide open?

Hey there, I am cutting a lot of pasture grass, no hay. There some areas with trees and some large rock out cropping here and there. Some pastures more open than others. Thanks everyone for the support with this, nice to get everyone’s thoughts on a big purchase.

 

[Bill G]

They still dyno test the engines for emissions purposes and last I checked the definition of a hp hasn’t changed. I will also say I’m sure a similar weight and hp tractor from the 50-60’s won’t pull any more then my 2025r. It wiill definitely sound different because of the rpm in need to run mine at and I’ll have to not and may need to let up on the hydrostatic pedal to limit ground speed but I really dont think there would be much difference. I do know the old tests your talking of about draw bar and pto hp and have read many.

Engine HP is basically irrelevant today when it comes to tractor performance.

22 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Mowing/Residential-Mowers/Lawn-Tractors/100-Series-Lawn-Tractors/s120

25.5 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Mowing/Residential-Mowers/Lawn-Tractors/X700-Series-Lawn-Mowers/x739-lawn-tractor

23.9 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Agriculture/Tractors/Compact-Tractors/2-Series-Compact-Utility-Tractors/2025r

50 HP

5050e-utility-tractor

Shop Heritage Tractor for new & used John Deere tractors, mowers & ag equipment for your farm, construction and landscape needs. Find OEM parts and service too.

heritagetractor.com

All of those are inflated numbers. Deere and all of them do it. What matters is PTO horsepower for mowing and drawbar horsepower for tillage. I run a 7 foot mower and it takes all of a true 90 PTO HP to do it efficiently. The 15 ft batwings need 200 plus. The OP is looking for a good tractor and needs to buy one that is large enough to fill the needs for today, tomorrow, and next week. The prices are not going down so pony up now and buy what will last a good long time. I see guys (and gals) drop $80,000 on a freaking truck that only gets them from point A to B when a $5000 truck would do the same. When it comes to tractors they are work machines and if they are worth spending some coin on.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Engine HP is basically irrelevant today when it comes to tractor performance.

22 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Mowing/Residential-Mowers/Lawn-Tractors/100-Series-Lawn-Tractors/s120

25.5 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Mowing/Residential-Mowers/Lawn-Tractors/X700-Series-Lawn-Mowers/x739-lawn-tractor

23.9 HP

https://heritagetractor.com/New-Equipment/Agriculture/Tractors/Compact-Tractors/2-Series-Compact-Utility-Tractors/2025r

50 HP

5050e-utility-tractor

Shop Heritage Tractor for new & used John Deere tractors, mowers & ag equipment for your farm, construction and landscape needs. Find OEM parts and service too.

heritagetractor.com

All of those are inflated numbers. Deere and all of them do it. What matters is PTO horsepower for mowing and drawbar horsepower for tillage. I run a 7 foot mower and it takes all of a true 90 PTO HP to do it efficiently. The 15 ft batwings need 200 plus. The OP is looking for a good tractor and needs to buy one that is large enough to fill the needs for today, tomorrow, and next week. The prices are not going down so pony up now and buy what will last a good long time. I see guys (and gals) drop $80,000 on a freaking truck that only gets them from point A to B when a $5000 truck would do the same. When it comes to tractors they are work machines and if they are worth spending some coin on.

That’s fine whatever you say about hp not being relevant, I would be willing to bet money my 2025r will pull anything a case vac would being they are same weight and roughly same hp. I have used my uncles vac and had a 1943 case sc with a hand clutch.
Also have a co-op e-3 on edge of my field that I want to restore. Has the very rare hi/lo transmission wirh live pto. The co-op is the same as a cockshutt 30.

 

[Duce]

Purchased a New Holland TC33d in 2004 has 2300+ hours on it with no problems yet. My cousin works on diesel machines and says buy a tractor with a Japanese engine. Mine is a Japanese engine unlike newer LS tractors. If looking at JD compacts, might as well look at Yanmar tractor and save money. His and my sons Kubota has been great also.

 

[Ryan Browne]

Purchased a New Holland TC33d in 2004 has 2300+ hours on it with no problems yet. My cousin works on diesel machines and says buy a tractor with a Japanese engine. Mine is a Japanese engine unlike newer LS tractors. If looking at JD compacts, might as well look at Yanmar tractor and save money. His and my sons Kubota has been great also.

You need a PDF copy of the service manual for that machine? If so, let me know, I'll email you one. I have a tc29d, same machine with a little bit smaller engine. Mine has also been trouble free other than having to jump a safety switch or two. Unbelievable how much work it'll do on a tank of fuel. Best part is mine didn't have a loader, so the guy had it listed for a couple months with no takers. I picked it up for $5000.

 

[jblnut]

That’s fine whatever you say about hp not being relevant, I would be willing to bet money my 2025r will pull anything a case vac would being they are same weight and roughly same hp. I have used my uncles vac and had a 1943 case sc with a hand clutch.
Also have a co-op e-3 on edge of my field that I want to restore. Has the very rare hi/lo transmission wirh live pto. The co-op is the same as a cockshutt 30.

I’ll take that bet. In a heartbeat.

I have an Avery A that will pull my 2038r backwards. It weighs around 2700lbs according to the ol’ internet’s which I think is quite strong. The 2038r is around there as well. It wasn’t even funny, the A pulled it backwards in soft dirt and on my hard driveway. I hale lots of smaller older machines I can hook to that 2038r to see what won’t pull it. I bet my Farmall B may even give it a run for its money.

The size and type of tire have a lot to do with it as well. I’d put money down that that VAC will out pull your 2025r in anything on most any surface.

The issue with discussing things on the internet is that no one is really wrong but no one is totally correct either. A Deere X738 tractor weighted to 1900lbs will not pull the same as a 2025r that weighs the same. It just won’t. They have similar HP but are totally different machines meant for similar tasks but very different tasks at the same time.

The advance of the CUT and SCUT markets have created a whole new generation of “tractor owners”. Not saying that is a bad thing at all but growing up around farm equipment gives a different perspective than shopping online for something and becoming an expert. There is a reason most farms do not use off-brand machinery. I don’t like writing the checks for the CNH and Deere stuff we have here but I know when it goes down there are literally a hundreds of techs within a hundred miles of me that can repair it if I can’t. Someone will very likely have the part I need.

The initial purchase of the machine is such a small part of owning it and so many people focus so much on it and it alone. I just stuck close to $11,000 in repairs to my Deere 5510. It has 23,000hrs and I paid $8,500 for it 8yrs ago knowing it’d need some work at some point. It was worth fixing. I’m gonna say there are very few, if any, SCUT/CUT machines that will last that long. That 5510 will be good for another 5-7,000hrs now and will last me the rest of my farming career.

OP if you’re looking at something for mowing primarily I’d look pre 2000 and in that 75hp range. Use it in the wide open areas and use a zero turn on the lawn. Get one with a loader and a cab and rent a mini-ex when you need it unless or until you can afford one right away.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I’ll take that bet. In a heartbeat.

I have an Avery A that will pull my 2038r backwards. It weighs around 2700lbs according to the ol’ internet’s which I think is quite strong. The 2038r is around there as well. It wasn’t even funny, the A pulled it backwards in soft dirt and on my hard driveway. I hale lots of smaller older machines I can hook to that 2038r to see what won’t pull it. I bet my Farmall B may even give it a run for its money.

The size and type of tire have a lot to do with it as well. I’d put money down that that VAC will out pull your 2025r in anything on most any surface.

The issue with discussing things on the internet is that no one is really wrong but no one is totally correct either. A Deere X738 tractor weighted to 1900lbs will not pull the same as a 2025r that weighs the same. It just won’t. They have similar HP but are totally different machines meant for similar tasks but very different tasks at the same time.

The advance of the CUT and SCUT markets have created a whole new generation of “tractor owners”. Not saying that is a bad thing at all but growing up around farm equipment gives a different perspective than shopping online for something and becoming an expert. There is a reason most farms do not use off-brand machinery. I don’t like writing the checks for the CNH and Deere stuff we have here but I know when it goes down there are literally a hundreds of techs within a hundred miles of me that can repair it if I can’t. Someone will very likely have the part I need.

The initial purchase of the machine is such a small part of owning it and so many people focus so much on it and it alone. I just stuck close to $11,000 in repairs to my Deere 5510. It has 23,000hrs and I paid $8,500 for it 8yrs ago knowing it’d need some work at some point. It was worth fixing. I’m gonna say there are very few, if any, SCUT/CUT machines that will last that long. That 5510 will be good for another 5-7,000hrs now and will last me the rest of my farming career.

OP if you’re looking at something for mowing primarily I’d look pre 2000 and in that 75hp range. Use it in the wide open areas and use a zero turn on the lawn. Get one with a loader and a cab and rent a mini-ex when you need it unless or until you can afford one right away.

My 2025r has a full cab and fluid in the tires, guess I’m curious now I did run the vac a fair bit and from memory I don’t think it would out pull my 2025r but maybe I’m wrong. I do have turf tires so that’s a disadvantage but also have 4 wd. I’m sure I’ll never find out but what I have works well for what I need. And I’ll be dead before it had 23,000 hours on it even if it could that long. I’ll restore the e-3 30 hp and have that also which is definitely heavier and more stable for pulling plows ect at my shack. The 2025 is excellent for yard work and snow removal along with loader work so in the end I’ll have both.