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Keith Gandy

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Pay special attention to the last paragraph.




http://blog2.thermoworks.com/2012/03/infrared-thermometry/



Three common misconceptions about infrared thermometers


MARCH 9, 2012 JESSE

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Besides the fact that they’re shaped like a gun and have a built-in laser, infrared thermometers are just plain cool. They’re very fast (instantaneous), provide a good indication of temperature and allow you to collect data at a distance. The problem is, you’ve got to look past the novelty – and learn how to use them properly – before they’ll give you excellent temperature returns.

Here are three of the most common misconceptions about infrared thermometers:



#1 The laser reads the temperature

This is just plain wrong. The laser pointer in an infrared thermometer is a guide that indicates where you’re pointing the instrument. When measuring the heat coming from an A/C duct (for example), the laser helps to steady your aim and ensure that you’re close to the area you’re trying to temp.

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Depending on the make and model, an infrared thermometer is actually reading the temperature above, below or around where you see the laser. Some infrared thermometers, like the IR Pro Series and the IR-IND are equipped with two lasers. They provide an indication of the infrared radiation being measured between the laser points. And depending on your infrared’s optics, the diameter of the area being measured will change as you get farther away from your target. This is called the optical range.

(Hint: Understanding optical range will greatly improve the accuracy of your temperature measurements. Keep your eyes open for a future post where we’ll take a closer look at what exactly optical range is and how it affects your temperature readings.)


Depending on the make and model, an infrared thermometer is actually reading the temperature above,…


#2 An infrared thermometer will tell you the internal temperature

This is another myth worth busting. An infrared thermometer is a surface temperature tool – period. If you’re grilling, baking, smoking, or roasting you’re going to need a penetration probe to tell you the internal temperature of the food you’re cooking. An infrared will only give you the surface temperature of the food, and depending on your optical range, the temp of the surrounding grill, skillet, oven, etc.

Ideally you would use infrared thermometers to temp the surface of hot oil, a cast iron skillet, a saute pan, even chocolate and soup. However, whipping out your infrared “laser gun” to temp burgers on the grill may have you explaining to your guests why they’re undercooked.


#3 All surfaces are created equal

As a matter of fact, just the opposite is true. Not all surfaces are created equal. Depending on what you’re pointing your infrared gun at you’re likely to get variations in emitted infrared energy. This variation is called emissivity. Emissivity is a measure of a materials ability to emit infrared energy. It is measured on a scale from just about 0.00 to just below 1.00.

Generally, the closer a material’s emissivity rating is to 1.00, the more that material tends to absorb reflected or ambient infrared energy and emit only its own infrared radiation. Most organic materials, including the byproducts of plants and animals, have an emissivity rating of 0.95. These are ideal surfaces for accurate temperature readings.

Substances with very low emissivity ratings, like highly-polished metals, tend to be very reflective of ambient infrared energy and less effective at emitting their own electromagnetic waves. If you were to point an infrared thermometer with fixed emissivity at the side of a stainless steel pot filled with boiling water, for example, you might get a reading closer to 100°F (38°C) than 212°F (100°C). That’s because the shiny metal is better at reflecting the ambient radiation of the room than it is at emitting its own infrared radiation.
Good info!!
 

thomas1

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butthurt - no

so let me get this straight. You are saying that the FLIR is giving me incorrect readings? So the fact that it says for example 105F near the middle of the bar and 120F closer you get to the mount area is false? So there is no difference or it's wrong? Over 100's of times that I've taken readings?

No, you said the readings were incorrect. Remember when it showed the inserts as the same temp as the bar?

So are you saying that if I take the clear coat off the tsumura on one side of the bar and it reads i dunno like 110F I think it was approx. and the otherside with out the clear coat reads 70F and that I can put my finger in the same area but different sides and tell a difference...that's bs? That I am just convincing myself so it fits my theory?!

Again, you're claiming the paint is holding the heat in the bar. How is it holding the heat from coming out, but allowing you to somehow measure this heat at the surface?

I'll give you a simple test. Stick a half-painted bar of your choosing in an oven at 200° for 10 minutes, then pull it out measure the surface temp both sides. By your logic the unpainted side is going to be at least 40° cooler. Care to bet a dollar on the results?

and am I to understand correctly that you're saying that I'm just making this chit up? I'm spending all this time, effort, and money just to make this chit up? wtf would that accomplish?

I was gonna say your guess is as good as mine, but your guesses don't seem based in reality.

this is ghey.

Finally, something everyone can agree on.
 

CR888

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Agreeing on the ghey bit made me spit muh coffee!
 

Fifelaker

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Serious question, which is hotter black or white cows?
 

thomas1

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inserts - so the inserts show hot but you can hold on/touch them all day long. I'm guessing the temp is showing the core of the bar? (behind the insert)

claiming - I don't know if the paint is holding the heat in the bar. Maybe... I don't know.

I do know I get different readings depending on where I am on the bar. Bearings in the tip always read hotter then the rest of the tip. Right next to the tip on the bar usually reads a little higher than the "mid" part of the bar. I get higher readings closer to the mount area. I do know if I take the paint off or clear coat those readings go down. I do know I can then usually touch that area where I couldn't before.

What causes all of that? Again, I don't really care. I just know it makes a difference in the readings I take on the cylinder (always in the same spot) and most importantly in the cut times!

If you want to discuss the why or argue about why. Your talking to the wrong dude.

For all I know the temp readings are actually 50F higher or lower. But here is the KEY thing. What I'm doing and the RESULTS I"m getting. They are CONSISTENT.

Tsumura and cannon are CONSISTENTLY faster
Tsumura and cannons CONSISTENTLY get lower readings.
Temp readings always go down when I take the paint off the tip.
I can then always touch that area longer then I could before.


Hopefully that clarifies my position.

So, now we're back to the "testing" that you've repeated "100's of times" doesn't matter because your results are consistent? You can say 2+2=5 a thousand times, that's consistent, but it's still incorrect.


as for your oven test - Seems like you'd be heating from the outside in. Bar and chain kinda I would think anyway create heat from the inside to the outside. So maybe the paint and clear coat does insulate or uhh slows down the heat dissipation? I dunno.

Are you being serious? A chain will heat it from the inside out? How does the heat jump past the outside surface of the bar, where the friction is?

The bars with the lower temps run faster. Many videos. Can't make that chit up. I can't really say anything more then that.

Less friction produces less heat, I'm fairly certain most people don't need 75 videos to figure that out.
 

MyUsername

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If you think a bar with paint removed makes a saw cut measurably faster I have another suggestion to increase your cutting speed.

....shave/wax all the hair off your forearms! Less drag!!...arms will be more aerodynamic and flow though the air quicker on your downward cutting stroke.
To be completely honest, I truly believe this is at least equivalent of removing bar paint. Professional bicyclists and swimmers shave their whole bodies for speed increases! Why not someone cutting firewood!! I see a whole new series of scientific chainsaw cutting videos on the horizon. I even bet your forearms will be cooler temperatures without hair.(and IR temp guns will read accurately on skin)
 

Stump Shot

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Just some food for thought for you guys. Maybe, just maybe a little focus should be put to the why is the bar heating up in the first place. There's only one word to describe it - Friction. A recent case in point is my buddy brought his brand new saw in saying it was cutting crooked. After inspection it was found that the drive links were worn out and too loose in the bar, which had the paint burned off where he was using it most bucking firewood. The saws oiler was working properly, but the bar oil was rather thin and seemed to lack any lubricity at all to it, kind of watery feeling. This oil turned out to be a cheap "Farm Store" oil. Curious I took a look at the bar on my firewood saw that has cut for three seasons now, not a lick of burned paint anywhere on the bar, it was fed a semi synthetic bar oil from brand new, and has no appreciable wear on it what so ever, yet having cut way more wood. So it was plain to see to me that what bar oil was used made a major difference in the bar and chain lasting longer, because of less Friction. With less Friction, should translate to faster as well. For me the two dollar difference in one gallon of bar oil is not worth wearing out components and costly replacements. Every type of saw user should benefit from using a high quality bar oil, wether a racer, professional or firewood cutter.
Sorry to make a little detour in this thread, but this was on my mind. Carry on, and have fun.
 

WOODS

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Also if you were checking the chain temps instead of the bar you should have comparable results since the surface is the same. Or the check the bar mount temps.

Ron
 
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