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Keith Gandy

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Hey thermodynamic paint engineers...

After a long 40 second cut with the clear coat on I can't touch the bar. And with the clear coat off I can hold on to it.

FLIR readings umm kinda back that up. Please explain!


or better yet, get up out of your computer warrior chair and go make a video of you proving otherwise!
No one has proven if your inital test were flawed ? All they have done is disagreed . Interesting discussion though and I learn that paint vs thick powdercoating and whether its a insulator or a thermal conductor
 

thomas1

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You spent 400hrs performing "testing" and you think saving .03 seconds on one cut is somehow saving you time and money? :facepalm:

Now please explain how the chain being cooler keeps it sharper?

Lots of leaps being made here based on "before it was so hot I couldn't touch it and now I can touch it".

Basing something on "I don't know why it works, but I'll just keep saying it does" ain't science, that's magic.
 

thomas1

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Hey thermodynamic paint engineers...

After a long 40 second cut with the clear coat on I can't touch the bar. And with the clear coat off I can hold on to it.

FLIR readings umm kinda back that up. Please explain!

or better yet, get up out of your computer warrior chair and go make a video of you proving otherwise!

These are the same FLIR readings that show the plastic inserts as the same temp as the chain, which you already stated was not the case, correct?

Funny how easily you dismiss the FLIR info when it doesn't support your biased conclusions.
 
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Keith Gandy

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You spent 400hrs performing "testing" and you think saving .03 seconds on one cut is somehow saving you time and money? :facepalm:

Now please explain how the chain being cooler keeps it sharper?

Lots of leaps being made here based on "before it was so hot I couldn't touch it and now I can touch it".

Basing something on "I don't know why it works, but I'll just keep saying it does" ain't science, that's magic.
I would think a cooler chain would mean less metal fatigue and a stronger edge? Sorta like a tempered knife edge, too much heat and u roll the edge
 

Keith Gandy

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You spent 400hrs performing "testing" and you think saving .03 seconds on one cut is somehow saving you time and money? :facepalm:

Now please explain how the chain being cooler keeps it sharper?

Lots of leaps being made here based on "before it was so hot I couldn't touch it and now I can touch it".

Basing something on "I don't know why it works, but I'll just keep saying it does" ain't science, that's magic.
He isnt trying to save time and money? He is looking for a performance edge on speed
 

Keith Gandy

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I think Redbulls objective isnt whether he is right or wrong, or why this does that, but will a cooler bar mean a cooler cylinder and will a cooler cylinder mean faster cut times. And will 42to1 be faster than 32to1 and that it all translates into a faster cut time
 

thomas1

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He isnt trying to save time and money? He is looking for a performance edge on speed

He just deleted his post where he broke down his calculation of how faster cut times were saving him money. It magically disappeared, just like the heat from the bar.
 

thomas1

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I would think a cooler chain would mean less metal fatigue and a stronger edge? Sorta like a tempered knife edge, too much heat and u roll the edge

You have to get to the point of affecting the temper of the steel, though. No difference between 100° and 200°, both are below that threshold.
 

KenJax Tree

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it was kind of a rude post to ken jax. so yes i deleted it.

all the evidence i have says you take the clear coat off the tsumura or the paint off the bar tips or paint off stihl bars = cooler running saw and bar chain etc etc. Not a one time thing either. I've seen this time and time again with 20" bars, 24" bars 28" bars 32" bars 36" bars 41" bars and the 72". These are all the bars I've tested. (attached) I don't care if you don't believe me. Why don't I care?? because my purpose isn't to make people believe me, my purpose is to go faster. I post the data and people are free to decide for themselves.

A rude post to me? For not understanding wtf this all means?[emoji849]
 

Keith Gandy

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You have to get to the point of affecting the temper of the steel, though. No difference between 100° and 200°, both are below that threshold.
Ya I see. I guess for us average fellows less heat would mean less chain stretch
 

KenJax Tree

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Im not so sure I agree with that Chris. If the bar gets hot enough to blue and roll the bar edge thats a problem?

That is only the bar rails which are thinner so they heat up easier. Under normal conditions that won't happen if the oiler is working, and the chain isn't overly tight.
 

Keith Gandy

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That is only the bar rails which are thinner so they heat up easier. Under normal conditions that won't happen if the oiler is working, and the chain isn't overly tight.
Its nice to know what bars run the coolest though as Redbull is testing. Theres a reason Cannon leaves their bars uncoated and reflected by evidence of Julians test. Thats my pick of bars but I would use total or tsumura next. I wish Cannon would come on with their LW bars
 

thomas1

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it was kind of a rude post to ken jax. so yes i deleted it.

all the evidence i have says you take the clear coat off the tsumura or the paint off the bar tips or paint off stihl bars = cooler running saw and bar chain etc etc. Not a one time thing either. I've seen this time and time again with 20" bars, 24" bars 28" bars 32" bars 36" bars 41" bars and the 72". These are all the bars I've tested. (attached) I don't care if you don't believe me. Why don't I care?? because my purpose isn't to make people believe me, my purpose is to go faster. I post the data and people are free to decide for themselves.

Sure you care, I said your data is flawed and now you're butthurt that someone would have the audacity to disagree with your "scientific" testing.

You post tons of data as "proof" of your theory and as soon as someone disagrees with the validity of the data you say the data doesn't matter because you know you're right and nobody else's opinion is worth considering.
 

thomas1

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He isnt trying to save time and money? He is looking for a performance edge on speed

Here ya go, Keith.

2f344018933429e04f192ed6e9cbeb48_zpswccvtksk.jpg
 

thomas1

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Pay special attention to the last paragraph.




http://blog2.thermoworks.com/2012/03/infrared-thermometry/



Three common misconceptions about infrared thermometers


MARCH 9, 2012 JESSE

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Infrared_Gun-2.png
Besides the fact that they’re shaped like a gun and have a built-in laser, infrared thermometers are just plain cool. They’re very fast (instantaneous), provide a good indication of temperature and allow you to collect data at a distance. The problem is, you’ve got to look past the novelty – and learn how to use them properly – before they’ll give you excellent temperature returns.

Here are three of the most common misconceptions about infrared thermometers:



#1 The laser reads the temperature

This is just plain wrong. The laser pointer in an infrared thermometer is a guide that indicates where you’re pointing the instrument. When measuring the heat coming from an A/C duct (for example), the laser helps to steady your aim and ensure that you’re close to the area you’re trying to temp.

Infrared_Gun_Laser-1.png
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Depending on the make and model, an infrared thermometer is actually reading the temperature above, below or around where you see the laser. Some infrared thermometers, like the IR Pro Series and the IR-IND are equipped with two lasers. They provide an indication of the infrared radiation being measured between the laser points. And depending on your infrared’s optics, the diameter of the area being measured will change as you get farther away from your target. This is called the optical range.

(Hint: Understanding optical range will greatly improve the accuracy of your temperature measurements. Keep your eyes open for a future post where we’ll take a closer look at what exactly optical range is and how it affects your temperature readings.)


Depending on the make and model, an infrared thermometer is actually reading the temperature above,…


#2 An infrared thermometer will tell you the internal temperature

This is another myth worth busting. An infrared thermometer is a surface temperature tool – period. If you’re grilling, baking, smoking, or roasting you’re going to need a penetration probe to tell you the internal temperature of the food you’re cooking. An infrared will only give you the surface temperature of the food, and depending on your optical range, the temp of the surrounding grill, skillet, oven, etc.

Ideally you would use infrared thermometers to temp the surface of hot oil, a cast iron skillet, a saute pan, even chocolate and soup. However, whipping out your infrared “laser gun” to temp burgers on the grill may have you explaining to your guests why they’re undercooked.


#3 All surfaces are created equal

As a matter of fact, just the opposite is true. Not all surfaces are created equal. Depending on what you’re pointing your infrared gun at you’re likely to get variations in emitted infrared energy. This variation is called emissivity. Emissivity is a measure of a materials ability to emit infrared energy. It is measured on a scale from just about 0.00 to just below 1.00.

Generally, the closer a material’s emissivity rating is to 1.00, the more that material tends to absorb reflected or ambient infrared energy and emit only its own infrared radiation. Most organic materials, including the byproducts of plants and animals, have an emissivity rating of 0.95. These are ideal surfaces for accurate temperature readings.

Substances with very low emissivity ratings, like highly-polished metals, tend to be very reflective of ambient infrared energy and less effective at emitting their own electromagnetic waves. If you were to point an infrared thermometer with fixed emissivity at the side of a stainless steel pot filled with boiling water, for example, you might get a reading closer to 100°F (38°C) than 212°F (100°C). That’s because the shiny metal is better at reflecting the ambient radiation of the room than it is at emitting its own infrared radiation.
 
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