Let’s see some stumps

[Mastermind]

That’s one of them “whoopsie” stumps..

I'd reckon. Old Boss dog didn't like it...he pissed on it and walked away.

 

[davidwyby]

The 5’ high stump and the stump cut. Plunge and spin to keep the chain cutting out of the wood so it doesn’t dull as fast.

 

[Loony661]

White Oak. 25” bar on the MMWS 462C.

 

[Mastermind]

White Oak. 25” bar on the MMWS 462C.
View attachment 445533

That's a dandy..

 

[Loony661]

That's a dandy..

It really was. I sat back after felling it and just admired this one. Thought to myself, “That’s a really nice tree. I wish they were all like that.”

 

[Ketchup]

40” hybrid poplar. Cut the face slightly dutch to start but it cleaned up okay. That chain is cutting crooked and no amount of raker adjustment seems to fix it.

 

[Loony661]

This is how my stumps look if I have to pull a tree over, against the lean.

 

[Hoser]

Loony661 what is the reason for the back cut being lower than the face?
Does it help with pulling/ pushing trees over when you have to “convince them” with a skidder?

 

[chiselbit]

This is how my stumps look when I have a 6 or 7 foot burned out hard leaning scary tree with daylight showing through the vertical cracks. I really don’t know how that thing was still standing.

 

[Loony661]

Loony661 what is the reason for the back cut being lower than the face?
Does it help with pulling/ pushing trees over when you have to “convince them” with a skidder?

Great question - it’s for safety, and also function.

Boring in at least a few inches under the face cut prevents the tree from slipping off the stump. When I hook the skidder cable to a tree leaning away, I climb on top of the arch and hook it as high as I can. That being said, it’s still way under the tipping point of the tree. This butt cut ensures that it has the best chance to stay put, until I pull it over. Here’s a couple more pics of the tree to help visualize:

 

[davidwyby]

@chiselbit only got a little face in?

 

[jakethesnake]

Great question - it’s for safety, and also function.

Boring in at least a few inches under the face cut prevents the tree from slipping off the stump. When I hook the skidder cable to a tree leaning away, I climb on top of the arch and hook it as high as I can. That being said, it’s still way under the tipping point of the tree. This butt cut ensures that it has the best chance to stay put, until I pull it over. Here’s a couple more pics of the tree to help visualize:
View attachment 446566View attachment 446567View attachment 446568

Just curious. If I was cutting that I’d wanna make him fall to the side vs pulling him all the way back and over. I do realize you’re a pro and I’m not. Explain for me here. The cut makes perfect sense to me. But I don’t usually have a tractor with me and just trying to wrap my head around the why you want him to go back the way you’re going with it.

How would you approach with no skidder?

I pinched a saw pretty good once trying to bore cut it and go with the heavy lean so now I just pick the best side and try to make them go sideways. (Gum tree)

 

[Maintenance Chief]

View attachment 446560

This is how my stumps look if I have to pull a tree over, against the lean.

This is the difference between a sawyer selling timber and hazard tree removal.
Bore/plunge cutting eliminates the possibility of barberchair or more importantly for timber sale fiber pull.
When I pull a tree against the lean I'm never trying to save the lumber but rather the historical building around it.
I make a huge face 70/90 or gap face so it holds on to the stump and my back cut might be 2" above the apex of the face so the tree won't kick backwards off the stump.
Getting pinch on a severe lean happens when the hinge collapses from the forward lean over comes the strength of the fiber, set the hinge bigger ,or if you trying to save the lumber try a double plunge from each side with a triangle post in the middle as your trigger.
Cutting plans can be wildly different with the intended purpose of objective.

 

[Ryan Browne]

This is the difference between a sawyer selling timber and hazard tree removal.
Bore/plunge cutting eliminates the possibility of barberchair or more importantly for timber sale fiber pull.
When I pull a tree against the lean I'm never trying to save the lumber but rather the historical building around it.
I make a huge face 70/90 or gap face so it holds on to the stump and my back cut might be 2" above the apex of the face so the tree won't kick backwards off the stump.
Getting pinch on a severe lean happens when the hinge collapses from the forward lean over comes the strength of the fiber, set the hinge bigger ,or if you trying to save the lumber try a double plunge from each side with a triangle post in the middle as your trigger.
Cutting plans can be wildly different with the intended purpose of objective. View attachment 446593View attachment 446594

I think part of the equation here also is how high the pulling point is. If you can get a rope away up in the tree, making your back cut higher than the apex of the face might make good sense. As you say, that'll keep the tree from kicking backwards off the stump. If, on the other hand, your rope is only 15' up, and well below the center of gravity, lowering that back cut to a couple inches under the apex of the face cut makes sense. That'll keep the log from pulling out from under the rest of the tree, should the hinge fail, and sending the tree over backwards.

 

[chiselbit]

@chiselbit only got a little face in?

Hey David, I scratched a tiny face in the only part of that tree that had any wood and it was making noises when I did it. Should have taken a picture of it standing, there was a lot of tree up there above all that śhitty wood

 

[Loony661]

Just curious. If I was cutting that I’d wanna make him fall to the side vs pulling him all the way back and over. I do realize you’re a pro and I’m not. Explain for me here. The cut makes perfect sense to me. But I don’t usually have a tractor with me and just trying to wrap my head around the why you want him to go back the way you’re going with it.

How would you approach with no skidder?

I pinched a saw pretty good once trying to bore cut it and go with the heavy lean so now I just pick the best side and try to make them go sideways. (Gum tree)

There are several reasons, but the biggest one in this particular incident, was because it was the clearest way for the tree top to move through the canopy without damaging surrounding trees, or tearing a limb out of the tree itself, possibly wrecking the top log.

I do prefer to pull them straight over “backwards” whenever possible though, because it’s safer. The tree is more likely to slide off the stump if felling to one side or the other. If this happens, you lose all control.

Another thing to keep in mind: my skidder weighs near 20,000 lbs with a 20k rated winch. And my tires are fully chained up with bear paw chains that have ice spikes welded to them. This tree slid my skidder back about 4-6” when I started winching it over. There’s a LOT of weight above my cable that gravity didn’t want to let go of. If you’re going to attempt this with a tractor, please know your limitations - things could go wrong in a hurry. I don’t recommend it without a full roll cage, tire chains, and absolute knowledge on the weight and forces being applied that you can hold back and overcome.

 

[Loony661]

Just curious. If I was cutting that I’d wanna make him fall to the side vs pulling him all the way back and over. I do realize you’re a pro and I’m not. Explain for me here. The cut makes perfect sense to me. But I don’t usually have a tractor with me and just trying to wrap my head around the why you want him to go back the way you’re going with it.

How would you approach with no skidder?

I pinched a saw pretty good once trying to bore cut it and go with the heavy lean so now I just pick the best side and try to make them go sideways. (Gum tree)

I was also avoiding a property line and pasture fence, that didn’t quite run true, and pulling it over backwards was the best option to avoid that as well. Forgot to mention that.

I wouldn’t have pulled it over, otherwise. Cutting leaners is a regular thing for me.

 

[Ryan Browne]

Here's a pretty good video that breaks down the math involved in pulling over back leaners. Another trick I learned from YouTube university was to get it rigged and BEFORE you start cutting, make sure you can move it with the winch. Just start pulling in cable and see if the top starts coming your way. Then, once you know you have some control, start cutting/wedging. If you can't get the tree to move, you may need some blocks or a bigger winch.

 

[Loony661]

Here's a pretty good video that breaks down the math involved in pulling over back leaners. Another trick I learned from YouTube university was to get it rigged and BEFORE you start cutting, make sure you can move it with the winch. Just start pulling in cable and see if the top starts coming your way. Then, once you know you have some control, start cutting/wedging. If you can't get the tree to move, you may need some blocks or a bigger winch.

I don’t have the cell service to watch that at this moment, but want to comment, that yes putting tension on the cable before cutting is a must! I always preload the tree before starting my cuts.

 

[jakethesnake]

There are several reasons, but the biggest one in this particular incident, was because it was the clearest way for the tree top to move through the canopy without damaging surrounding trees, or tearing a limb out of the tree itself, possibly wrecking the top log.

I do prefer to pull them straight over “backwards” whenever possible though, because it’s safer. The tree is more likely to slide off the stump if felling to one side or the other. If this happens, you lose all control.

Another thing to keep in mind: my skidder weighs near 20,000 lbs with a 20k rated winch. And my tires are fully chained up with bear paw chains that have ice spikes welded to them. This tree slid my skidder back about 4-6” when I started winching it over. There’s a LOT of weight above my cable that gravity didn’t want to let go of. If you’re going to attempt this with a tractor, please know your limitations - things could go wrong in a hurry. I don’t recommend it without a full roll cage, tire chains, and absolute knowledge on the weight and forces being applied that you can hold back and overcome.

10/4 brother. Makes sense and nah I have no interest in pretending I’m a pro. No hooking tractors to leaning tree. However the cut you made makes sense to me I was just in my brain wanting the whole situation as to why. You explained perfectly and nice work. I wouldn’t have even known what to do. I learned what didn’t work for me several years ago. Ended up cutting my saw out of that pinch with a pole saw. Cause I wasn’t getting back close with a regular saw. Lesson learned Also why I go sideways with them now