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Dull chains...does it really kill saws....how?

Jon1212

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This is a 2008 model I picked up for $25. It was filthy, coated in dust, sap, and bar oil. The bar on it wasn't that old, but the rails were blown out, and the chain didn't have any point left on the cutters. The carb base, filter, and carb throat had copious amounts of fine dust around, and within. The PTO side of the piston, and cylinder were toast.
The bearings, seals, vacuum, and pressure all checked out, so I cleaned everything thoroughly, and installed an OEM top end.

I surmise from all that I discovered, a dull chain, and ham fisted operator are not conducive to saw longevity.
 

jmssaws

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Also, @Redbull661 ... since you do so many comparisons... and are good at graphs and stuff, would you be willing to take the mantle of running a dull chain vs sharp one and checking exhaust temps? ...
Exhaust Temps isn't the problem
It burns the pto side seal till it sux air and that kills it.

A dull chain in no way shape or form loads a saw more,it loads it less and the extra rpm and extended cut time kills it.
Lot of ways a dull chain can kill one.
 

jmssaws

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Sorry. Can't follow your logic. A dull chain does not skate across the wood with zero cutting. It grabs, it tears, it lugs the saw, and bogs it down, causing the clutch to slip, etc.

Philbert
A dull chain isn't doing anything.
Take your chain that you just crammed in the ground and pry on it till your ass falls off and then put a sharp chain on and apply the same pressure and let me know what happens.
 

Jon1212

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Exhaust Temps isn't the problem
It burns the pto side seal till it sux air and that kills it.

A dull chain in no way shape or form loads a saw more,it loads it less and the extra rpm and extended cut time kills it.
Lot of ways a dull chain can kill one.

A dull chain in, and of itself doesn't necessarily "load" a saw more, but the dumb$hit dawging the saw in, and levering up on the handle certainly does "load" said saw.
 

Philbert

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A dull chain isn't doing anything. Take your chain that you just crammed in the ground and pry on it till your ass falls off and then put a sharp chain on and apply the same pressure and let me know what happens.
???

You post as if no one has ever experienced a dull chain before? When I have a dull chain, I can hear and feel (and sometimes smell) the saw load up - that's part of how I know that the chain is dull. If I put more pressure on the saw it is because the chain is dull. I don't have to lean on a saw with a sharp chain, so the saw is not loaded up as hard. So cutting with a dull chain puts more load on the saw than cutting with a sharp chain.

Again, 'sharp' is not a binary condition ('sharp' or 'dull'). The cutting edges get progressively rounded over due to normal wear and use - the point that you decide to restore those edges is up to the user. But as the chain progressively gets duller, it progressively results in more load on the motor to cut the same wood.

Philbert
 

jmssaws

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A dull chain in, and of itself doesn't necessarily "load" a saw more, but the dumb$hit dawging the saw in, and levering up on the handle certainly does "load" said saw.
So a dull chain doesn't load a saw more than a sharp one,it's the idiot running the saw that loads it more. Correct?
 

Philbert

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With an electric saw you can measure current draw, heating, etc., fairly easily. Mount it in a test fixture, with clear, uniform samples of wood, and weights to insure equal downward force applied. Then run it with whatever chains you want to compare. This would work for different brands, angles, hook, etc. as well. Takes the idiots out of the equation.

Philbert
 

Dub11

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With an electric saw you can measure current draw, heating, etc., fairly easily. Mount it in a test fixture, with clear, uniform samples of wood, and weights to insure equal downward force applied. Then run it with whatever chains you want to compare. This would work for different brands, angles, hook, etc. as well. Takes the idiots out of the equation.

Philbert
Well chit if Iam out of the equation then what the hell iam I suppose to do?
 

Jon1212

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So a dull chain doesn't load a saw more than a sharp one,it's the idiot running the saw that loads it more. Correct?
Let me see if I can clarify....

As I see it, a dull chain carries dual detriment to a saws longevity.

A) Excessive RPM's from the chain not cutting into the would efficiently, but merely skipping across the surface, and making sawdust.

B) Excessive strain is often applied to the saw by the operator to force unrealistically, the dull chain to cut properly.

These are both motor "load" based actions, one through RPM, the other through force and leverage.

It's almost always the idiot running the saw that *f-words it up, or occasionally the idiot that used it last.
 

T.Roller

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As said before, a dull chain doesn't load a saw more. You don't need an electric saw for the test, simply put a tach on your saw. Cut with no pressure on the saw with a sharp chain, then again with a dull chain with no pressure once again. The tach will tell you all you need to know. The problem arises when the dull chain is forced to cut thru the wood. There is more friction causing more heat.
 

Outback

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Is it possible that some saws die because they are ran dull causing bar/chain friction, and impact/vibration, as the dull tooth hits wood, that destroys the pto bearing. Then a leaky seal causes burn down, either from the loose bearing, or the seal fries and the bearing goes loose. The order doesn't really seem that important. The result is the same. AND

Is it possible that some saws die because they are ran dull until the fines build up in the filter until it goes lean on oil. As fuel/air is reduced by clogged filters until the amount of oil per rpm if you will shall be reduced whether your at 50/1 40/1 or 30/1. The engine will run hotter with less fuel going in the cylinder weather the mixture is correct at the carb or not. These are air cooled and perhaps more accurately, fuel cooled engines. Then lesser volume of oil has to work harder at a higher temp. Perhaps then you would see a fried exhaust side piston.

Less air, and less fuel, and less oil, even if it sounds rich as the air fuel ratio is now a lower ratio with less air velocity. Sure when the mixture hits the cylinder theirs more fuel than air, but how much total charge is getting in with less velocity at the transfers. This would be worse on a compensating machine, not better, ie compensating carb's and at/mt. As you have less over all flow per combustion event and less power and much less cooling.

And why not both sometimes. Sometimes stupid brakes in more than one way. It is more likely than not, not a single path to destruction. But several converging paths of poor decision. 50/1, clogged filters, ham handedness, dull chains. Just plain stupid

What can be agreed is running a dull chain is stupid, your likely to burn your piston, and maybe a cylinder. You can guess about the link, or you can tell the short truth. Running dull chain is bad mm kay. So is riding a bike on a flat tire. Maintenance is its own reward. Like they say. If you got 6 hours to axe down a tree spend 4 sharpening the axe.

This is all my opinion. Please tell me how i'm wrong. I'm just trying to learn like everybody else. As my final thought, doesn't rpm tend to kill the flywheel bearing first, not the pto. I'd be inclined to believe that heat soak, impact of dull teeth on wood, and higher rpm, work together to toast the pto bearing. Not just one lone terrorist, but a cell if you will.
 

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Define dull
I hate a chain that isnt super sharp, thats why i file every tank. And thats a minimum! Dirty wood I put on a cheap chain, cause Im liable to file da dog snot out of it thru a tank or 2 of fuel. Save edge files last a long time.
 
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