Aftermarket Cylinder Quality

[drf256]

@huskihl

Meteor jugs have the best AM plating I’ve ever seen. It’s harder than oem and a beoch to work with.

The ports are terrible.

A while back, DD gave away a bunch of Meteor cylinders with defective intake port openings. Many of us used them on the 1128 AM buildoff for Randy’s GTG. The meteor plating ruined many boring bars and burrs. I eventually sold mine off and I know the plating won’t ever go bad.

 

[Stump Shot]

@huskihl

Meteor jugs have the best AM plating I’ve ever seen. It’s harder than oem and a beoch to work with.

The ports are terrible.

A while back, DD gave away a bunch of Meteor cylinders with defective intake port openings. Many of us used them on the 1128 AM buildoff for Randy’s GTG. The meteor plating ruined many boring bars and burrs. I eventually sold mine off and I know the plating won’t ever go bad.

I had a running 660 show up with a Meteor on it that hung the top ring in one of the transfers, snapped the ring and a chunk of the top of the piston off, beat the dog snot out of the top of the piston with the debris and not as much as a scratch on that cylinder anywhere, they are tough.
On another note, I broke a boring bar and tool post machining a new one once, never tried to do that again. They are tough, even the aluminum is a hard alloy, no beer cans and lawn chairs here like a lot of other AM ones are soft.
I'm really tempted to try and port one of the one's that the Duke has made and imported, those are damn nice with the plating exposed at the port edge bevels, not lapped into the port, honed to size and beautiful looking ports. If it wasn't for all the other AM disasters prior I would have not been "gun shy" to try porting one out. Whatever company makes them for him this is what they do for a living, not a mud hut operation with a child chained to a stake inside or an old man out in the dessert sand making them with his feet. They do production work so could in a way be considered like an OEM one might say.

 

[srcarr52]

I had a running 660 show up with a Meteor on it that hung the top ring in one of the transfers, snapped the ring and a chunk of the top of the piston off, beat the dog snot out of the top of the piston with the debris and not as much as a scratch on that cylinder anywhere, they are tough.
On another note, I broke a boring bar and tool post machining a new one once, never tried to do that again. They are tough, even the aluminum is a hard alloy, no beer cans and lawn chairs here like a lot of other AM ones are soft.
I'm really tempted to try and port one of the one's that the Duke has made and imported, those are damn nice with the plating exposed at the port edge bevels, not lapped into the port, honed to size and beautiful looking ports. If it wasn't for all the other AM disasters prior I would have not been "gun shy" to try porting one out. Whatever company makes them for him this is what they do for a living, not a mud hut operation with a child chained to a stake inside or an old man out in the dessert sand making them with his feet. They do production work so could in a way be considered like an OEM one might say.

Taiwan vs. China

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Unfortunately Taiwan probably isn't going to stay very " independent " for very long if things dont change , not that cylnder quality will be their concern at that time.
Globalization has definitely redefined our expectations for craftsmanship.

 

[Spike60]

Where are the Meteor kits really made?

 

[Stump Shot]

Where are the Meteor kits really made?

Italy https://www.meteorpiston.com/cylinders

 

[Mastermind]

Italy https://www.meteorpiston.com/cylinders

It was my understanding that they are cast in the shade of a mud hut in China....then sent to Italy for plating.

 

[huskihl]

Brother Dave says Meteor and Hiway are cast in Taiwan, possibly at the same plant. Hiway gets finished and plated there in Taiwan while Meteor gets finished and plated in Italy

 

[Stump Shot]

It was my understanding that they are cast in the shade of a mud hut in China....then sent to Italy for plating.

Brother Dave says Meteor and Hiway are cast in Taiwan, possibly at the same plant. Hiway gets finished and plated there in Taiwan while Meteor gets finished and plated in Italy

https://www.meteorpiston.com/cylinders

 

[Spike60]

Italy https://www.meteorpiston.com/cylinders

Went there and had a look. Spent an hour Including their youtube page. They spend much more time talking about their pistons than cylinders, but it seems the cylinders are somewhat new for them. I've never actually messed with a Meteor kit as I always had access to OEM at dealer cost. Are these kits comparable to OEM quality in the context of being worth porting? Other than the plating problem Doc mentioned. Ml j

But while I'm there, all kinds of ideas started popping up. Why does nearly everyone in the AM parts biz run to China or Taiwan for mostly the same parts? Anyone ever try sourcing kits from the OEM suppliers? Reverse question is why are kits from Mahle, Kolbinschmidt, or Gilardoni only available through the OEM's? Cost or minimum runs may well be the issues, but Mahle probably remembers how to make a 262xp kit, right?

Could be a moot point with the newer saws. Husky is making most of the 500 series cylinders themselves in Sweden, and I don't know what Stihl is doing. But it would be great if some supplier could market cylinders based on high quality rather than low price.

 

[Stump Shot]

Went there and had a look. Spent an hour Including their youtube page. They spend much more time talking about their pistons than cylinders, but it seems the cylinders are somewhat new for them. I've never actually messed with a Meteor kit as I always had access to OEM at dealer cost. Are these kits comparable to OEM quality in the context of being worth porting? Other than the plating problem Doc mentioned. Ml j

OEM isn't nearly as tough as Meteor, they are hard to port as even the aluminum is harder than even a KS cylinder. Port shapes timings etc. are close, it's Meteors take on making them so expect the unexpected. They're too tough for me, I ported one and that was enough.
As far as a replacement cylinder goes, I like these for returning saws to service especially firewood duty, it can keep costs to a minimum and the saws run just as good. Have done several over the years this way and the saws stay out there cutting...

 

[Stump Shot]

Went there and had a look. Spent an hour Including their youtube page. They spend much more time talking about their pistons than cylinders, but it seems the cylinders are somewhat new for them. I've never actually messed with a Meteor kit as I always had access to OEM at dealer cost. Are these kits comparable to OEM quality in the context of being worth porting? Other than the plating problem Doc mentioned. Ml j

Could be a moot point with the newer saws. Husky is making most of the 500 series cylinders themselves in Sweden, and I don't know what Stihl is doing. But it would be great if some supplier could market cylinders based on high quality rather than low price.

The Taiwanese cylinders that The Duke has made are worth running to imho. They make as good or better cylinder as OEM from the ones I've messed with. My 2100cd has more power with a Duke cylinder than OEM take off that it was modeled after. I'm not sure just how many models he has available at this time, surely @Duke Thieroff extrapolate better than I on these.

 

[drf256]

The transfer port design on all of the meteor cylinders I’ve held in my hands made them not worth porting. They lack direction and lack the proper intake side “bulge” in the transfer tunnels. It’s too bad that an AM manufacturer can’t get the tunnels correct.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Lol the age old question when it comes to aftermarket cylinders.


Why aren't they as good as OEM, etc.

Why are people so obsessed with comparing an engineered product to a cheap copy, then acting upset whenever the finer points are not the same?

Then, if they did make an exact copy the complaint would be "TOO EXPENSIVE!"

Most of the market for copy chainsaw repair parts is price/value based because oftentimes it doesn't make sense to rebuild a $200 saw with a $300 cylinder.

If you're a regular guy who smokes his MS260 and can get a reasonably "ok" cylinder for $50 that bolts up and works isn't that reasonable?

I'm a little jaded because I get the question a lot and I'll try and explain in a short OPINION piece about it.

There's only so many cylinder factories on the planet, and realistically a lot of them all come from the same places. The market isn't huge.

Most die-casting of cylinders on the planet is done in Taiwan or China.

Usually the better quality stuff comes from Taiwan, but there's some decent stuff that comes out of China too.

The Taiwan cylinders cost quite a bit more than the Chinese ones, and in the end, how do you articulate that to the customer?
People talk about how they don't want to support our geopolitical rivals (China) with their mouths, but with their pocketbooks they decide differently.

Oftentimes the only aftermarket options come from China for a lot of parts. It is what it is.

And the price matters to everyone.

Yeah, some of us are enthusiasts and can afford to hold our nose at a cylinder or some other part because we've got a number of saws we could reach, a network of parts connections and the knowledge of the differences.

What if our perspective was different?

What if we only had one saw, a limited budget and needed to get some wood put up?

Would we try out the less expensive parts first instead of throwing it in the trash bin and buying another?

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Went there and had a look. Spent an hour Including their youtube page. They spend much more time talking about their pistons than cylinders, but it seems the cylinders are somewhat new for them. I've never actually messed with a Meteor kit as I always had access to OEM at dealer cost. Are these kits comparable to OEM quality in the context of being worth porting? Other than the plating problem Doc mentioned. Ml j

But while I'm there, all kinds of ideas started popping up. Why does nearly everyone in the AM parts biz run to China or Taiwan for mostly the same parts? Anyone ever try sourcing kits from the OEM suppliers? Reverse question is why are kits from Mahle, Kolbinschmidt, or Gilardoni only available through the OEM's? Cost or minimum runs may well be the issues, but Mahle probably remembers how to make a 262xp kit, right?

Could be a moot point with the newer saws. Husky is making most of the 500 series cylinders themselves in Sweden, and I don't know what Stihl is doing. But it would be great if some supplier could market cylinders based on high quality rather than low price.

Hi Bob!
Hope everything is going good with you!


I worked with SEM for months to try to get them to remake the coils for the 285s and the 2100s.

They have existing relationships with those manufacturers and don't want to damage them, usually. I think the tooling probably has something to do with it as well.

Husqvarna/Stihl etc probably own the casting molds and won't release.

There's probably a million reasons why parts procurement choose not to make another run of parts.

Slow movement, large minimums, non-support after time and damaged/worn out molds are probably notable.

 

[Spike60]

Thanks Chris; everything is going really good! "All that free time" gets gobbled up a lot faster than you'd think. Lol

Hoped you would jump in here, cause an opinion from someone who's actually been behind the curtain and knows how this works can dispell a lot of the myths. And its not realistic to have $300 expectations for a $50 p&c kit. .

PM coming soon. About time to catch up on things.

 

[huskihl]

The transfer port design on all of the meteor cylinders I’ve held in my hands made them not worth porting. They lack direction and lack the proper intake side “bulge” in the transfer tunnels. It’s too bad that an AM manufacturer can’t get the tunnels correct.

I’ve never seen one run as good as oem. I ported a meteor 661 jug with a Wiseco piston. It ran almost as good as stock oem.

 

[drf256]

I agree and understand what Duke and Bob are saying above. i just don’t see why it would be so much more difficult to change the mold on the transfer tunnels towards something that approximates the oem shapes.

Some of my ignorance may be playing a role in my question. Maybe the intake hump requires a 2 piece mold vs the straight AM transfer tunnels we typically see with the AM jugs.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

I agree and understand what Duke and Bob are saying above. i just don’t see why it would be so much more difficult to change the mold on the transfer tunnels towards something that approximates the oem shapes.

Some of my ignorance may be playing a role in my question. Maybe the intake hump requires a 2 piece mold vs the straight AM transfer tunnels we typically see with the AM jugs.

"Hey there is a quality control problem with the cylinders, the port timing numbers are off and the squish is high."

"Do they fit, and run?

"Yes."

"What's the problem?"

 

[Stump Shot]

"Hey there is a quality control problem with the cylinders, the port timing numbers are off and the squish is high."

"Do they fit, and run?

"Yes."

"What's the problem?"

"Techrician say, okay to run."