064, 066 MS650, MS660 info thread

[maulhead]

Depends on the coil. LOL Would still like to know what the suffixes are about..., and why two part numbers in the first place.

Just tried two different 0000-400-1300 coils (according to Dave's pics) with the 1122-400-1214B / 1209C flywheel keyed in the X position. First one is off of my 066 and immediately behaved exactly like it does on my saw after mine has run for awhile. Started up and revved great like an 066 should. Shut it down to restart it and couldn't pull it over even with the decomp due to what is evidently some kind of a random timing advance after the coil has seen some heavy magnetism. (pulls over just fine with the kill switch on)

Tried what was supposed to be another 0000-400-1300 from an 034 (according to the IPL and Dave's pics) and it fired right up but wouldn't rev to save its ass. Bogged badly with even a little pull on the trigger and finally just quit and wouldn't restart. Probably flooded it.

Sooooo... two different 0000-400-1300 universal coils essentially didn't work correctly with a 1122-400-1214 /1209 flywheel keyed in the X position that originally had a 1311 coil. Still wonder about those damned suffixes.

Also don't see the 1214/1209 combo listed in the flywheel to coil matrix from Canadian Farm Boy.

Guess I need to find someone with the magic tech bulletin to explain all this in a bit more detail than what has already been presented unless the 0000-400-1300 is actually supposed to work and I just happen to have two lemons...which is highly unlikely.

Need some more input here, folks!

Lets tag @jacob j.

See what he has to say...

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Just been reading a bunch of his comments over on AS and it sure looks like the 0000-400-1300 should be the ticket for the flywheels I have from the saws with the old 1311 coils.

 

[maulhead]

Depends on the coil.

Plus,

That coil I pictured with the dual key flywheel, does not have a number on it, all it says is "Stihl" "Japan" and a capital C on the face of the coil. No numbers at all.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

A light bulb just went off while I was looking at the 54.2000 service bulletin and realized there were numbers for heated handles that don't necessarily match up with the number above, but rather the coil listed. Unless you're dealing with heated handles (or their flywheels), the top FW numbers are what we're interested in relative to the coil listed at the bottom of the box. So a 1214 / 1209 aluminum flywheel with dual keyway can be used for either a 1307, 1311, or 1300 coil depending on keyway used. A single keyway version with just an X position would be the equivalent to just a 1214 FW and limited to the 1311 or 1300 replacement whereas a single keyway version with just a B or P position would be the same as just a 1209 FW and relegated to the 1307 coil. I think!

Just wish there were better ways to ID the coils besides the pics...which are still a great resource, don't get me wrong. I just seem to have two 1300 coils here according to the pics, the IPLs, and the sources of said coils, that aren't playing nice with a 1209/1214 flywheel using the X key position which I understand to be the unlimited coil position. Too bad they didn't include the keyway designations for the respective coils in the chart.

​

 

[Mastermind]

Depends on the coil. LOL Would still like to know what the suffixes are about..., and why two part numbers in the first place.

Just tried two different 0000-400-1300 coils (according to Dave's pics) with the 1122-400-1214B / 1209C flywheel keyed in the X position. First one is off of my 066 and immediately behaved exactly like it does on my saw after mine has run for awhile. Started up and revved great like an 066 should. Shut it down to restart it and couldn't pull it over even with the decomp due to what is evidently some kind of a random timing advance after the coil has seen some heavy magnetism. (pulls over just fine with the kill switch on)

Tried what was supposed to be another 0000-400-1300 from an 034 (according to the IPL and Dave's pics) and it fired right up but wouldn't rev to save its ass. Bogged badly with even a little pull on the trigger and finally just quit and wouldn't restart. Probably flooded it.

Sooooo... two different 0000-400-1300 universal coils essentially didn't work correctly with a 1122-400-1214 /1209 flywheel keyed in the X position that originally had a 1311 coil. Still wonder about those damned suffixes.

Also don't see the 1214/1209 combo listed in the flywheel to coil matrix from Canadian Farm Boy.

Guess I need to find someone with the magic tech bulletin to explain all this in a bit more detail than what has already been presented unless the 0000-400-1300 is actually supposed to work and I just happen to have two lemons...which is highly unlikely.

Need some more input here, folks!

I broach 064 flywheels pretty regularly to work with the 1300 coil. I use a 066 flywheel's "X" slot to figure out where to cut the keyway. They work great.......

So, you might have two bad coils.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

That would be four bad coils if you count the two 1311's! I have a MS310 coil here that I'll try next. I know it works because the guy blew up his saw with it.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Success with a new OEM 1300 coil on a 1214 flywheel using the X key position. Guess the other coils presumed to be 1300's were either indeed bad or not 1300's in the first place.

 

[Carles Hicks]

I have the same thing going on. I have P + X 1122 400 1214B flywheel with only the X key way and a bad 1311 coil. I just ordered a 1300. I hope it works.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I'd be curious to know how you make out. I'm also still curious about the A, B, and C suffixes in the part numbers.

 

[KZ1000]

Well, I've been trying to make sense of everything but not. I have a 660 built from a basket that has a 1122 400 1217 flywheel and 1122 1314 coil that will jerk the handle out of your hand from advance, what am I missing please?

 

[KZ1000]

Are all of the cranks the same on slot point?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

You could obviously try retarding the timing slightly to see what happens. Is the crank native to the case you're using? There are some tech notes about the 1217 flywheel/coil combinations relative to the X 33 917 066 -> serial number break point. Could possibly be crank related. I show two 1217 cranks in MediaCAT for the MS660 and the 064/066. The one for the MS660 says it also applies to the 066. The one for the 066 doesn't list the MS660 as applicable. Could just be a model year reference issue since the MS660 didn't exist when the 066 IPL was published, but most parts in MediaCAT are cross-ref'd to show every known application of an existing part number. And as you've probably read already, there are two other coil possibilities for the 1217 flywheel..., 0000-400-1303 and 1305.

Not sure I have the tech notes listed on the chart. Will check and see what I come up with.

One last thing. Does it yank back at ya when the ignition is in the off position? If not, it's ignition. If so, it could just be a bunch of assembly lube or fuel in the case creating excessive compression. Been there, done that too.

Not sure this helped much, but may give you an angle or two to consider.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Are all of the cranks the same on slot point?

Take the key out and retard it alil and tighten down and try

 

[KZ1000]

Please forgive me for wasting your time. I looked up all sorts of info, then went back down to the shop and pulled it like I was forty again, it fired right up. I think that it may have been due to extra oil in the cylinder from assembly building pressure. Thanks anyway and at least I remembered to pull the blocker out from behind the muffler this time.

 

[Deets066]

Please forgive me for wasting your time. I looked up all sorts of info, then went back down to the shop and pulled it like I was forty again, it fired right up. I think that it may have been due to extra oil in the cylinder from assembly building pressure. Thanks anyway and at least I remembered to pull the blocker out from behind the muffler this time.

Fresh assembly with extra lube in there can make em pull damn hard. I just broke an elastostart on mine

 

[KZ1000]

I really think that is how some of the bayers are getting their readings on the guage.

 

[Willard]

I got alot of information from this thread thanks to Dave and Cut4fun over at Chainsaw Repair Index.

Here's my project on my bench. My '86 064 race ported with 084 carb done up by myself 30 years ago. Still runs strong.

Also my '92 066 Mag Arctic red light dual outlet mufflered with 000 400 1300 Iida module upgraded in '93. It needs new main bearings otherwise in excellent mechanical condition, never had the cylinder off since new.

And lastly a '96 066 that sat for 20 years with old gas in it. Module is gone and needs all rubber parts replaced. Otherwise excellent mechanical condition. I got this saw free about 10 years ago.

Also in the pic is a spare '86 064 crankcase, crank, rod and flywheel. Crankcase is broken at oil tank and bar pad but all bearings are like new.

My plan is to rebuild the '96 066 then use it for my tree service with 28"-36" b/c. It has the upgraded bigger crank and bearings, decomp and thicker cylinder base.
The '92 066 Mag Arctic I'm going to also use in my tree service sporting 20"-25" b/c. From the spare 064 crankcase I'll swap out the narrow flywheel to replace the wider flywheel on the 066Mag. Then rob the narrow profile rewind housing from the 064 to go on the 066Mag.
Just my thoughts. Will be interesting to see how the '96 066 runs.
Anybody know if the thicker cylinder base it has detuned its h.p. ratings over the older red light with the 1300 unlimited coil?

 

[Willard]

Thought I'd show how Stihl's manufacture date stamps on there saw parts works.
First pic I drew up shows the years in alphabet form my Stihl's are dated.

2nd pic is my 1986 064AV with a M 1985 symbol on the crank case and M 12 month clock symbol under the top cover as Aug 1985 part manufacture date.

3rd pic is my 1996 poly fan wheel 066 with a W June 1995 on the rear handle.

Lastly my 2017 MS261CM with Oct 2016 dates.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Interesting. So how do their serial numbers work?

 

[Willard]

Interesting. So how do their serial numbers work?

Here's 2 pics of the serial #'s off my two 064 crankcases both are 1986 models.
First #1 represents made in Germany. The smaller serial number is the older 064.
These 1122 #'s (064,066,MS660,MS640,MS650 progress through the years larger.