Which 2 cycle oil ratio???

[bwalker]

So, my position is that so far no publicized oil testing has been good enough to pass the scientific criteria, so let's see what's out there. Guys like Richard Flagg... All eyeball stuff. But.. many people see it as valuable information. Even if Yamalube 2R, an oil favorite of mine, didn't do so well. I'm fully aware of what the market has consumed, and unfortunately I don't like the direction. I will say that I have owned many 2 strokes and a few 4 strokes and nothing has been more reliable/durable than my fs100rx 4-mix I purchased in 2005 that is ready to go to commercial service again. One valve adjustment in 2025 and that was the only one...It was very close to spec. I have no reliability or durability issues with Stihl except for one... The br800 of mine that just dropped a pushrod. Replaced under warranty. If it was to have been junked without replacement under warranty I would have bought an Echo pb-9010... Because the cam is not easily accessible on a 4-mix blower. My br800 was a gift. I think Stihl makes more refined
equipment as a whole, but that is just my opinion. I like all of the major brands. As far as the direction of future equipment that is clear. Manufacturers are already in gear with battery stuff. Pretty soon loggers will have battery backpacks.

Battery equipment makes sense for lots of people that cant or won't deal with gas equipment care and maintenance. It will not replace gas for the pro market.
You have 3 pieces of 4mix equipment and one munched itself. I woukdnt call that a great track record.
The testing hasn't been done because it doesn't matter...hint. We have oil standards to guarantee a certain level of quality and thats good enough. The 4mix has design problems, pure and simple and oil seldom solves design problems.
Yamalube 2R is a great oil. I've used it in applications with way more stress and in way more expensive engines than OPE. It also has a track record of performance in high strung applications that few oils can match. For instance it was used extensively in Yamaha KT100 karts with RPM reaching 17-18000 depending on the tracks and 20 or more HP from a air cooled motor. Its also not a high Flashpoint, high viscosity oils and is a PIB and mineral oil blend...hint.

 

[Jusgunn3]

I run 62.75/1 of the Somali super purple….

 

[huskihl]

I run 62.75/1 of the Somali super purple….

Well that’s gonna have to end pretty quick

 

[Gary Courtney]

Because I tried Schaeffer's 7000 boat oil at 32:1 which is like water compared to H1R and that Schaeffer's was a disaster. Blackest plug after one tankful, plus it just didn't feel right. I've tried many oils in that blower. Some at 40:1. Let me just say that 50:1 runs much better. Saber @64:1 runs great. Edit.... Pic below of oils I have used. So, when I think 32:1 with H1R wouldn't work....

I run Schaefers 9000 in every two stroke and 4 stroke equipment I own. The piston and cylinders I have taken off were very clean !

 

[bwalker]

I run Schaefers 9000 in every two stroke and 4 stroke equipment I own. The piston and cylinders I have taken off were very clean !

His plug is black because the carb is rich....

 

[lilspenny]

His plug is black because the carb is rich....

No it wasn'ttoo rich. The carb was adjusted properly. BW your assumption is what it is based on your experience and your comment is welcome but in this case it's just not correct.

Edit... Now what could be is too much oil... I think I was at 32:1 perhaps 40:1 at leanest oil. But .. with the viscosity what it is on that tc-w3 I wasn't comfortable experimenting with 50:1.

 

[lilspenny]

I run Schaefers 9000 in every two stroke and 4 stroke equipment I own. The piston and cylinders I have taken off were very clean !

Gary .. any Stihl 4-mix? What ratio?

 

[bwalker]

No it wasn't. Gee. The carb was adjusted properly. BW your assumption is what it is based on your experience and your comment is welcome but in this case it's just not correct.

Black plugs are from low load, poor carb tuning or both. Most guys cant tune a carb to save their lives! Its pretty simple to figure this stuff out.
With a 4mix I would run the thing lean to the point you started to have running issues. Its a 4 cycle so you won't burn it up.

 

[bwalker]

Gary .. any Stihl 4-mix? What ratio?

For the record I've tested schaefers in a lawn boy mower. It ran about like any boat oil..
I know Treemonkey recommends the stuff but ai cant agree with that st all in an air cooled two-stroke.

 

[Gary Courtney]

For the record I've tested schaefers in a lawn boy mower. It ran about like any boat oil..
I know Treemonkey recommends the stuff but ai cant agree with that st all in an air cooled two-stroke.

I take in everyones thoughts and opinions of the members here and value them. I respect your knowledge. and then I research and study for my benefit. FWIW I contacted the Schaeffers engineers and spoke to him and he told me if I burned a chainsaw up using their product to box up any saw and send to them to research and they would replace any saw I burned up because of their oil. maybe, maybe not. I have used it in my saws,blowers weed eaters for 12+ years. Maybe I am paying the preacher right!!

 

[Gary Courtney]

Gary .. any Stihl 4-mix? What ratio?

I run 32:1 in everything. Saws,blowers,2-stroke weed eaters,Stihl 4 stroke weed eaters. I have never had any problems whatsoever. You can pull any plug and they will be a tan color. Some of my saws are m-tronic some I tune. Just use what best suits you.

 

[lilspenny]

For the record I've tested schaefers in a lawn boy mower. It ran about like any boat oil..
I know Treemonkey recommends the stuff but ai cant agree with that st all in an air cooled two-stroke.

To be honest I was a bit shocked at what I saw after just one tankful. Every time I swap to a new oil I adjust the carb to make sure all is right. Otherwise I don't feel that I'm being fair. It's about a 50% chance that change is needed but I always turn the screws anyway just to make sure all is tuned right. Even Schaeffer's 9000 small engine 2 cycle oil has a low viscosity. I think it's the same base as the 7000. Your thoughts on that? Also... Why do Lawnboy 2 strokes call for ashless?

 

[bwalker]

I take in everyones thoughts and opinions of the members here and value them. I respect your knowledge. and then I research and study for my benefit. FWIW I contacted the Schaeffers engineers and spoke to him and he told me if I burned a chainsaw up using their product to box up any saw and send to them to research and they would replace any saw I burned up because of their oil. maybe, maybe not. I have used it in my saws,blowers weed eaters for 12+ years. Maybe I am paying the preacher right!!

Consider the fact that you can run about any oil(ATF, motor oil, etc) and the saw won't burn up. The effects of crap oil or the wrong oil for a particular application is chronic rather than acute.
With that said all of the current.
manufactures recommend against using marine oils for good reason.

 

[bwalker]

To be honest I was a bit shocked at what I saw after just one tankful. Every time I swap to a new oil I adjust the carb to make sure all is right. Otherwise I don't feel that I'm being fair. It's about a 50% chance that change is needed but I always turn the screws anyway just to make sure all is tuned right. Even Schaeffer's 9000 small engine 2 cycle oil has a low viscosity. I think it's the same base as the 7000. Your thoughts on that? Also... Why do Lawnboy 2 strokes call for ashless?

One tank full on one machine does not constitute a test, period.
How was the machine ran? How do you know the carb is tuned properly?
Lawnboys require an ashless oil for the same reason outboards do. Because the see steady rpm for extended periods of time. They run actually better with low ash FD style oils, but with time you run into ash build up on the head and piston. If you run them hard in heavy grass mulching they will also carbon up the exhaust port and piston ring grooves when ran on boat oils. So in other words there are tradeoffs. Below are examples of what Ai am talking about and from Lawnboys.

 

[bwalker]

To be honest I was a bit shocked at what I saw after just one tankful. Every time I swap to a new oil I adjust the carb to make sure all is right. Otherwise I don't feel that I'm being fair. It's about a 50% chance that change is needed but I always turn the screws anyway just to make sure all is tuned right. Even Schaeffer's 9000 small engine 2 cycle oil has a low viscosity. I think it's the same base as the 7000. Your thoughts on that? Also... Why do Lawnboy 2 strokes call for ashless?

And you dont want a high viscosity oils in OPE and especially not in a 4mix. That is unless your goal is to build deposits, make less HP and mix with fuel poorly.

 

[Gary Courtney]

Consider the fact that you can run about any oil(ATF, motor oil, etc) and the saw won't burn up. The effects of crap oil or the wrong oil for a particular application is chronic rather than acute.
With that said all of the current.
manufactures recommend against using marine oils for good reason.
View attachment 481097

This is from Schaeffers web on their 9000 /Meets NMMA TC-W3; JASO FC, FD; ISO-L-EGC; ISO-L-EGD; and API-TC. the soutwest Stihl division is 90 miles from me and I am aquainted with the rep . I will give him a shout tomorrow and see his thoughts on warranty using 9000. I know they push Stihl ultra for ext. warranty.

 

[bwalker]

This is from Schaeffers web on their 9000 /Meets NMMA TC-W3; JASO FC, FD; ISO-L-EGC; ISO-L-EGD; and API-TC. the soutwest Stihl division is 90 miles from me and I am aquainted with the rep . I will give him a shout tomorrow and see his thoughts on warranty using 9000. I know they push Stihl ultra for ext. warranty.

Schaeffers is not JASO FD certified. No oil can meet both JASO/ISO AND TCW3. So they are lieing through their teeth. Its an ashless oil so it is formulated like a boat oil, although its likely not TCW3 certified either.
Im not sure what Stihl recommends now days. Ultra is basicly a boat oil and we all have seen how well that works in saws.

 

[lilspenny]

And you dont want a high viscosity oils in OPE and especially not in a 4mix. That is unless your goal is to build deposits, make less HP and mix with fuel poorly.

Question is, how thin is too thin? When Stihl Ultra, as a baseline, is 49/8.45 and Schaeffer's 7000 is 34/6.5 if I try to make up for the lighter viscosity I overload the mix and get a poor burn and if I go with a considerably heavier oil and dilute it I take away some of the detergent so there's not a ton of wiggle room. Question... Do you know how much Red Armor relies on added detergents to clean? Their 4 cycle manual recommends Red Armor so my thought was either there's not a lot of detergent in the RA or Echo is buying time until they decide the future of their resurrected 4 stroke. If there's not a lot of detergent how is RA burning so cleanly?

 

[lilspenny]

I think this is both politically and technically unlikely. If switching to battery caused lumber prices to increase there would be massive blowback, and without a major improvement in battery technology I can't see anything replacing 50cc+ chainsaws. The MSA 300 chews through an AP500 battery in about 15 minutes of continuous use and the battery gets so hot it takes 50 minutes to cool down and then another 50 minutes for a fast-charge. Stihl even says to not use their battery backpack with the 300 so I think there is clearly some issue with thermal buildup. I briefly owned the MSA 300 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I'm not sure what the specs are on paper for battery life but cutting for production is not even a remote possibility with something like the MSA 300.

I was actually joking. Sort of, I think. Maybe.

 

[bwalker]

Question is, how thin is too thin? When Stihl Ultra, as a baseline, is 49/8.45 and Schaeffer's 7000 is 34/6.5 if I try to make up for the lighter viscosity I overload the mix and get a poor burn and if I go with a considerably heavier oil and dilute it I take away some of the detergent so there's not a ton of wiggle room. Question... Do you know how much Red Armor relies on added detergents to clean? Their 4 cycle manual recommends Red Armor so my thought was either there's not a lot of detergent in the RA or Echo is buying time until they decide the future of their resurrected 4 stroke. If there's not a lot of detergent how is RA burning so cleanly?

I would stop worrying about that. You cant pick oil ratio based on viscosity. Also be aware that two cycle oil is a mixture and once the solvent flashes inside the motor they are all much thicker.
Detergents as used in oils dont function like you think they do. They dont clean per se, rather they prevent buildup from starting in the first place.
As I told previously no two cycle oil will remove deposits. Running conditions can help as can carb tuning, but its slow process and it may never have any effect
Echo probably doesn't care about their four mix line enough to give it a dedicated oil as the majority of their line is two stroke.