What's on your bench?

[Stevetheboatguy]

View attachment 184315

This is what’s on my bench. 1988 Yamaha 70 hp outboard block.

Snapped 9 of 14 bolts out of the head. Stainless to aluminum electrolysis for 32 years.

Got 3 out with welding nuts to them and heating block after 2 weeks of every penetrating oil known to mankind.

Another block is on its way.

Welcome to my world!



Steven

 

[drf256]

After a day of soaking the bolts in snake oil try a hand held impact, the one you hold with CCW tension and whack with a hammer.
They worked the best or broke the least bolts on japneeze bikes and saltwater outboards.
If nothing else you get to use a hammer on the offending unit.

These just snap off deeper in the hole. I can actually get threaded portions out, only to see residual remaining. Impact has worked best, in little blips.

I’ve got another block on the way, but I’m still gonna try to give this one a shot. Next is an attempt at drilling and helicoils.

Either way, I ordered Stainless studs for the next block. No way this is gonna happen again.

 

[Tor R]

Interested to see how you remove the ACC pump.

I assume you are doing the conversion to 87 specs. I find that they need 4 areas ground on:

The two stops
The choke plate
The area below-the choke plate will clear nozzle but rub there, blend the sharp edge.
The impulse port can use a chamfer, it doesn’t line up perfectly, so I use a chamfer by hand to V the outer portion.

View attachment 184314

thanks Al, good catch on the impulse channel!
I bought a 87 choke butterfly, but you're probleby right on that area too.

199 accelerator pump, I drilled a few wholes in the brass plugg, enough to get a little screw driver in, a bit twisting and out it came. Removed the trottle shaft and the acc pump was out.
The pump is a simple design, with the right tools (machinist) I belive its possible to make an oversized piston if there is to much wear in the carb, most of the times I belive we get a long way with a new piston & o-ring.

 

[drf256]

thanks Al, good catch on the impulse channel!
I bought a 87 choke butterfly, but you're probleby right on that area too.

199 accelerator pump, I drilled a few wholes in the brass plugg, enough to get a little screw driver in, a bit twisting and out it came. Removed the trottle shaft and the acc pump was out.
The pump is a simple design, with the right tools (machinist) I belive its possible to make an oversized piston if there is to much wear in the carb, most of the times I belive we get a long way with a new piston & o-ring.

I have 87 butterflies. I found they don’t work.

The easiest I’ve found is to center the donor 120/144 carb choke plate on the 198/9 plate and make a line on it with a sharpie (JMS scribe). Then file it flat on that area of the round to the line. The larger (than one would expect) opening when the choke plate is closed has no negative effect on starting, clears the nozzle, and will only bind where the little brass plug I mentioned above is proud.

The 87 plate didn’t work out for me. The slight difference in the carb makes it hit.

 

[drf256]

They run much better than 87’s do. They feel stronger for some reason.

Besides the additional work, I prefer them on a modded 262. For a stock saw, I’d stick with the 120/144.

 

[Stevetheboatguy]

These just snap off deeper in the hole. I can actually get threaded portions out, only to see residual remaining. Impact has worked best, in little blips.

I’ve got another block on the way, but I’m still gonna try to give this one a shot. Next is an attempt at drilling and helicoils.

Either way, I ordered Stainless studs for the next block. No way this is gonna happen again.

Careful with head studs. If you go that route you will have to lift the powerhead to remove the cyl head. Only a issue if you get a leak or blow a head gasket. But figured I'd give you a heads up. Been there before.


Steven

 

[Tor R]

I have 87 butterflies. I found they don’t work.

The easiest I’ve found is to center the donor 120/144 carb choke plate on the 198/9 plate and make a line on it with a sharpie (JMS scribe). Then file it flat on that area of the round to the line. The larger (than one would expect) opening when the choke plate is closed has no negative effect on starting, clears the nozzle, and will only bind where the little brass plug I mentioned above is proud.

The 87 plate didn’t work out for me. The slight difference in the carb makes it hit.

They run much better than 87’s do. They feel stronger for some reason.

Besides the additional work, I prefer them on a modded 262. For a stock saw, I’d stick with the 120/144.

thank you Al, you've gone through far more of them then what I have.
The carb project is for one of my 254's that I plan to finish the port work on, got two 254 unfinished projects. Hopefully I get the time to dremmel a bit tonight.

 

[drf256]

Careful with head studs. If you go that route you will have to lift the powerhead to remove the cyl head. Only a issue if you get a leak or blow a head gasket. But figured I'd give you a heads up. Been there before.


Steven

If there is room to pull the bolts out, how isnt there room to pull 2 piece head off studs?

I tought about the same, the lower cowl can be dropped with 4 bolts on this engine just enough to have full 90* bolt access.

Its these fuggin bolts that ruined my block.

Thank you for the help. Its greatly appreciated.

 

[Absolution]

I kinda forgot how annoying it is to do this without a mill. I was using a butterfly Endmill to chop all this out in a few passes.

 

[Stevetheboatguy]

If there is room to pull the bolts out, how isnt there room to pull 2 piece head off studs?

I tought about the same, the lower cowl can be dropped with 4 bolts on this engine just enough to have full 90* bolt access.

Its these fuggin bolts that ruined my block.

Thank you for the help. Its greatly appreciated.

You may be right doc. You might have enough room. Hope you do. The factory bolts are bad news sometimes.



70-90 hp has more clearance than I remembered.


115-130 definitely a no go for studs.



Steven

 

[drf256]

They should have studded from the factory IMHO.

I found 2 blocks. One is an "enduro" that has no oil injection pump provision, the other is standard.

I'm told one cannot mix and match the bottom/crank portion of the block with the upper/cylinder portion because of the way they are machined. I guess its like crankcase halves on saws, sometimes one gets lucky and at other times they don't (like me in this case).

 

[Absolution]

To add to the fun today. I got this in and assembled

 

[rattler]

 

[Czed]

Have some Cross Performance ones, how many do you want?

Neighbor bought me one for fixing his fs90
Thanks anyway.

 

[Bilge Rat]

They should have studded from the factory IMHO.

I found 2 blocks. One is an "enduro" that has no oil injection pump provision, the other is standard.

I'm told one cannot mix and match the bottom/crank portion of the block with the upper/cylinder portion because of the way they are machined. I guess its like crankcase halves on saws, sometimes one gets lucky and at other times they don't (like me in this case).

If you find a good 130 consider grabbing it. They were strong little motors stock and can be modded to make some big power on a light boat.

 

[drf256]

If you find a good 130 consider grabbing it. They were strong little motors stock and can be modded to make some big power on a light boat.

It’s a 15’ side console Whaler. 70HP is the max the transom is rated at.

 

[PA Dan]

I wish peolle would clean their saws once in a while. Didnt even come from a tree company.
View attachment 183671 View attachment 183672

Asking for a lot there Tom! Lol!

 

[PA Dan]

They run much better than 87’s do. They feel stronger for some reason.

Besides the additional work, I prefer them on a modded 262. For a stock saw, I’d stick with the 120/144.

How does the 198 carb compare to the 199 and/or the 87?

 

[ranchdadmike]

It’s a 15’ side console Whaler. 70HP is the max the transom is rated at.

This is priceless from a guy that runs a 36” bar on an o26

 

[Cut4fun]

I got one for you guys. Check side diaphragm. The one that came out was the blue stiff plastic deal. To match that up I went against my better judgement and installed the same style in the black stiff plastic.

Saw would not transition from low to high at all. It could idle all day. It could run on fast idle start too. But to throttle from idle or fast idle to full throttle she would stumble and die.


I got it fixed 5mins or so later. My judgement was right. I pulled carb and stuck the tan diaphragm in. From now on tan 1st, black rubber 2nd and those stiff blue or black plastic ones last.

In my pea brain the checks are just to stiff in those. Trying to find the carb diagram to see if my theory inside the carb shows what I am thinking.