What oil is best? and what ratio?

[Hundred Acre Wood]

Well said.

Thanks

 

[thedude74]

I thought you said "check out this rig"

Not...

"Squeal like a pig"

Did you at least get a reach around? ....umm...asking for a friend

 

[Mastermind]

Did you at least get a reach around? ....umm...asking for a friend

No.

 

[thedude74]

 

[thedude74]

Is there any reason I shouldn't switch to Saber or Dominator? It's about(uh-boot) half the price of Echo Red Armor locally.

 

[karrl]

There’s dozens of us Echo weirdo’s that will judge you for it but you will get a fat stack of amsoil stickers to make up. Depends on your priorities

 

[karrl]

Well… maybe a Dutch dozen at least

 

[thedude74]

There’s dozens of us Echo weirdo’s that will judge you for it but you will get a fat stack of amsoil stickers to make up. Depends on your priorities

Well… maybe a Dutch dozen at least

Is that anything like a bakers dozen?

Not gonna lie, I do like them stickers...but I'm also kinda an Echo weirdo myself....at least according to the Husky guys.

 

[Mastermind]

Red Armor is one oil I absolutely will not use.

 

[thedude74]

Really Randy? Why? Is it crap?

 

[mrxlh]

That post is nowhere near Kennyesque, lol...

Kenny’s punctuation was definitely better. I got lost at Police and mix ratios, act made my head hurt worse than Karen’s 1-17….

 

[PissRev]

Really Randy? Why? Is it crap?

It stains everything red in my experience. Mastermind may have another reason.

 

[mrxlh]

Definitely not Kennyesque.

He's basically saying people's different uses mean different operating conditions for each use, and the lab test environment used by the manufacturer can only do so much to replicate all of them. i.e. no lab can perfectly replicate the real world.

He takes the lab results as his baseline "truth" until the real world experience proves otherwise.

That's pretty good advice really.

But that's also why the oil wars continue. Because two people use different oils at different ratios in different conditions, and both have good results. So not realizing that's it's the operating conditions that significantly contribute to the difference, they argue about the oils and ratios, because each thinks the other has to be wrong! They can't both be right, can they? Well... actually they can.

When science isn’t science and facts are not facts it’s either Kennyesque or defying physics. Rolling element bearing failure analysis has been settled on a Worldwide ISO level for many years. Accelerometers are super cheap, hell there’s one in every smartphone. Embed one in a saw and let it feedback to the autotune or mtronic, it would throw fuel (oil) at it till it stopped the bearing noise or go so rich it wouldn’t run.

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

When science isn’t science and facts are not facts it’s either Kennyesque or defying physics. Rolling element bearing failure analysis has been settled on a Worldwide ISO level for many years. Accelerometers are super cheap, hell there’s one in every smartphone. Embed one in a saw and let it feedback to the autotune or mtronic, it would throw fuel (oil) at it till it stopped the bearing noise or go so rich it wouldn’t run.

You're suggesting flooding the engine to prevent destroying the bearings in the case where someone incorrectly mixed at 200:1, for example. Ok, that could be useful.

It's not clear to me how the accelerometer detects the impending bearing failure before false brinelling is already occurring though. Isn't it already too late?

 

[mrxlh]

You're suggesting flooding the engine to prevent destroying the bearings in the case where someone incorrectly mixed at 200:1, for example. Ok, that would be useful.

It's not clear to me how the accelerometer detects the impending bearing failure before false brinelling is already occurring though. Isn't it already too late?

Every rolling element bearing vibration signatures have been published for years. Inner race defect, outer race defect, ball spin frequency, and cage rate frequency. Yes an accelerometer would shut down a saw at a level above a stage 4 defect, which greasing or an oil change (richer auto tune/mtronic ratio in a 2 stroke case) corrects and save the bottom end and more likely a ton of top ends.

 

[bertfixessome]

Also, air cooled 2 strokes typically require Low-Ash oils, since the ash absorbs some of the heat and carries it away. As compared to Ash-Less oils required in liquid cooled 2 strokes, such as snowmobiles and dirt bikes..

I would be interested in where this came from as it does not sound logical to me .
Ash less oil is a EPA requirement for 2 stroke marine engines , particularly when used on inland waterways down here .

As ash is an oxide and as most oxides are refractory in nature I can not see how they would materially change the cooling of an engine.
I assume we have all sat around a campfire or two and noticed when the logs get a white ash layer on top of them the fire is noticeably cooler and needs a stir up or some more fuel .
Also in the morning the remaining charcoals are fairly cold but the ash is still quite hot and it retains this heat because it is refractory so it transfers heat into the air very very slowly the same as it adsorbs heat from the fire very very slowly .

On top of that, there is a very tiny amount of ash produced because there is a very tiny amount of ash creating compounds in 2 stroke oils
From memory ( so please correct me if this is wrong ) low ash generates 1% to 5% ash and no ash is less than 1% ( those definations were always being shifted back when I was involved in this stuff and way back then there was no legal defination , but that was quite a while ago ( I am 70 and last worked on oils better than 40 years ago ).
So in a big chainsaw with a 100cc engine with oil ratio of 50:1 running very rich ( for easy calculations ) on an air fuel ratio of 10:1 there would be 0.2ml of oil in each power cycle if we ignore what condenses in the crankcase and coats bearings to make things easier .
If we make it a high ash oil @ 10% ash ( for ease of mental maths ) then that 0.2ml of oil would produce 0.02ml of ash.
To visualise this the head of a plain drawing pin is around 0.1ml
Now while it is true that the burning of the compounds to create ash does take heat out of the burning charge, the actual amount of heat is miniscule compared to the heat passed through the piston rings into the bore which in itself is a small proportion of the heat that is passed out the exhaust.
The bulk of ash would have come from the Stoddard Solvent and calcium .
While we could go through the heat balance calculations , I have no idea what is in fuel now days so they would be meaningless.
But if you are relying on the ash to carry away heat to prevent it from overheating then you are running well over the design limits of that engine

 

[bertfixessome]

Every rolling element bearing vibration signatures have been published for years. Inner race defect, outer race defect, ball spin frequency, and cage rate frequency. Yes an accelerometer would shut down a saw at a level above a stage 4 defect, which greasing or an oil change (richer auto tune/mtronic ratio in a 2 stroke case) corrects and save the bottom end and more likely a ton of top ends.

You could do the same thing with acoustic emissions if you could filter the exhaust frequencies out effectively .

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

Every rolling element bearing vibration signatures have been published for years. Inner race defect, outer race defect, ball spin frequency, and cage rate frequency. Yes an accelerometer would shut down a saw at a level above a stage 4 defect, which greasing or an oil change (richer auto tune/mtronic ratio in a 2 stroke case) corrects and save the bottom end and more likely a ton of top ends.

I could see it potentially saving the top end, but it seems like the bottom end would already be on the path to death by the time the normalized signature deviation was significant enough.

Would be interesting to see implemented though.

 

[mrxlh]

Or you could just run real good oil at an appropriate ratio and be just fine. Here is a super common 2xx series Husky bearings fault frequency’s. To convert Hz to RPM, multiply by 60z.

 

[bertfixessome]

I could see it potentially saving the top end, but it seems like the bottom end would already be on the path to death by the time the normalized signature deviation was significant enough.

Would be interesting to see implemented though.

Way way way before metals fail they scream out at you that they have had enough.
All you have to do is listen for it .
Before you get into plastic deformation you get elastic deformation and that happens because imprefections in the lattice become glissile .
AFAIK it is only used in pressure vessels and some suspension bridges .
Rolling elements rolling and rolling elements sliding sound totally different and if your bearing are sliding then they are in trouble

There are lots of things that could be done for real time monitoring of engines
It is a matter of cost and of course reliability.
If I pay more for it then it better work as it should because I will be making warranty claims if it does not .
And of course if I buy an "auto shut down, failure proof saw " will I be as dilligent with things like oil ratios or quality ?
Does not work with modern cars