What oil is best? and what ratio?

[junkman]

Been running blue oil 50 to 1 for about 5-6 months ,no falures .

 

[Willard]

Just got off the phone with a old saw racing buddy and got into talking about Redline 2 stroke racing mix.
He claims reports of rust corrosion stems from using gas with any percentage of ethonal in it.
I was reassured the Shell 91 premium I use which has no ethanol works just fine with the Redline.

So I just learned a bit more with a google about my Shell Premium non ethonal gas.
It's pump name is Shell V- Power Nitro + Premium gasoline.
In Canada here it's ethanol free and has a 91 octane rating.
Plus a formula of corrosion inhibitors with a standard good enough for companies like BMW and Ferrari.
Also recommended for small 2 and 4 stroke engines.

Times are a changing but what I remember 40 years ago experimenting with Alky and Castrol R bean oil....mix oil is not the most important part in the equation of a fuel mixture.

 

[Hedgerow]

Way too much. Nearly half the keyway. It was a pretty cool day, so it took a while to warm up. But once that thing did, it detonated readily. Pulled it back to 33% or so, and it was fine. Compression on that saw was..uh...lemme find it here... 195psi. But that gauge was always about 8-10 psi on the high side as it has no hose.

Half a key way???

That ain’t *s-word...

I’ve advanced saws 3 times that much!!

Some liked it, others didn’t.

 

[Wolverine]

Anyone else get what I'm saying?

 

[RI Chevy]

We gotchu!

 

[CR888]

Just got off the phone with a old saw racing buddy and got into talking about Redline 2 stroke racing mix.
He claims reports of rust corrosion stems from using gas with any percentage of ethonal in it.
I was reassured the Shell 91 premium I use which has no ethanol works just fine with the Redline.

So I just learned a bit more with a google about my Shell Premium non ethonal gas.
It's pump name is Shell V- Power Nitro + Premium gasoline.
In Canada here it's ethanol free and has a 91 octane rating.
Plus a formula of corrosion inhibitors with a standard good enough for companies like BMW and Ferrari.
Also recommended for small 2 and 4 stroke engines.

Times are a changing but what I remember 40 years ago experimenting with Alky and Castrol R bean oil....mix oil is not the most important part in the equation of a fuel mixture.

Willard what you must understand about synthetics is the fact they are hygroscopic and have an inherent nature to attract moisture out of the air. This is not a property of mineral based oils. Redline, like others do their best to mitigate the effects of corrosion from moisture but by nature that's the way it is. Now Redline being a man made ester base synthetic is a top quality oil that I imagine is not cheap. Would I run it in high output 2 stroke, probably, would I run it in a commercial low output chainsaw...no I believe there are better suited oils for that. The most expensive oil isn't always the most suitable oil. If you like it and have success with it, that's the main thing.

 

[Hedgerow]

Willard what you must understand about synthetics is the fact they are hygroscopic and have an inherent nature to attract moisture out of the air. This is not a property of mineral based oils. Redline, like others do their best to mitigate the effects of corrosion from moisture but by nature that's the way it is. Now Redline being a man made ester base synthetic is a top quality oil that I imagine is not cheap. Would I run it in high output 2 stroke, probably, would I run it in a commercial low output chainsaw...no I believe there are better suited oils for that. The most expensive oil isn't always the most suitable oil. If you like it and have success with it, that's the main thing.

Thus, the cheap oil at 25:1..

Lotsa dino...

Keep that rust at bay...

 

[Deets066]

Oh my goodness and here I was trying to be nice to you pecker head.

 

[Willard]

Thanks guys, yeah Redline is overkill, and thanks CR for the moisture advice.
So seeing Stihl Ultra is full synthetic would it draw moisture too?
I know Husqvarna XP is semi, probably for that reason.

 

[andyshine77]

Thanks guys, yeah Redline is overkill, and thanks CR for the moisture advice.
So seeing Stihl Ultra is full synthetic would it draw moisture too?
I know Husqvarna XP is semi, probably for that reason.

No not all synthetic oils are hygroscopic, only oils with a large percent of ester, bad and or no corrosion inhibitors exacerbates the issue. The Redline oil you're using is known to be one of the worst when it comes to corrosion. That said if you use your saws regularly it likely won't be an issue, if they sit for awhile, I'd run a different oil.

 

[CR888]

Thus, the cheap oil at 25:1..

Lotsa dino...

Keep that rust at bay...

Cheap mineral oils get a bad name as they use cheap ingredients in them. I won't use any oil with bright stock as its base, it burns dirty and leaves carbon wherever it can. I run PIB based oils which yes are more expensive but it means I can get the benefits from mineral oils, avoid the negatives of synthetics and have an oil that combusts well & works well in a saw. There are tradeoffs with many things, oil is no different. Its about finding what works best in the application your using it for. I pay little attention to what's written on an oil bottle. I can quickly tell an oil that's resisting combustion is a saw in a few minutes cutting wood. I also take note of exhaust screens, piston crowns, exhaust ports and spark plugs. I don't mind cleaning a little carbon once a year from a port or crown but I can't stand glazed build up on pistons and heavy build up in short time. I say pay for good oil, quality costs money but choose something that suits the application. Many good options & even more bad ones.

 

[mdavlee]

Klotz KL200!

 

[00wyk]

Half a key way???

That ain’t *s-word...

I’ve advanced saws 3 times that much!!

Some liked it, others didn’t.

This one didn't. People thought they couldn't tell what detonation was in a 2t - well, now they know.

BTW, I use whatever fully synthetic oil is on sale. That's as far as I think about oil anymore. I spend more of my time cutting than foruming.

 

[CR888]

How come know one ever retards a saw for a gain maybe the its the word 'retard' & nobody wants to 'retard' their saw. It does'nt have the same zing to it like 'advance' does. I find ignition timing is something that needs fine tuning a little bit like a carb. I hook up a tach and advance/retard it until I get the best throttle response, rpm, starting & performance characteristics. The standard 'advance it xx degrees' advice I just kinda dont get, you just don't tune like that. A few saws that I've dialed in the timing on have improved with some retard, not many but a few. Dialing in timing I find a bit of a pita because I usually end up having to take the starter & flywheel off a good 10+ times to get it where I want it after many little changes back & forth. Usually end up with bar oil on muh boots.

 

[RI Chevy]

LESS POWA.

 

[mdavlee]

Too much advance can fight making RPM. Fought a few saws that needed barely any advance or none at all

 

[bwalker]

This one didn't. People thought they couldn't tell what detonation was in a 2t - well, now they know.

BTW, I use whatever fully synthetic oil is on sale. That's as far as I think about oil anymore. I spend more of my time cutting than foruming.

How do you know it was detonating and not pre igniting? Sounds to me like it just fell on its face from too much advance.
Also of note is the fact that I have had engines destroy themselves almost instantly with no percieved change in feel, sound, performance or even egt.
The last one I fragged had a Racepak data logger on it and the egt never was moved when it blew.

 

[andyshine77]

How come know one ever retards a saw for a gain maybe the it the word 'retard' & nobody wants to 'retard' their saw. It don't have the same zing to it like 'advance' does. I find ignition timing something that needs tuning a little bit like a carb. I hook up a tach and advance/retard it until I get the best performance. The standard 'advance it xx degrees' advice I just kinda dont get, you just don't tune like that. A few saws that I've dialed in the timing on have improved with some retard, not many but a few. Dialing in timing I find a bit of a pita because I usually end up having to take the starter & flywheel off a good 10+ times to get it where I want it.

I think when advice is given on ignition timing, general numbers are givin because they works on most saws, especially the last generation, newer saws not so much. The more timing you can pull generally the better, it's all about time under pressure. I think most guys who port saws have played around with timing, like you said it can be a PITA and things start to get loosey-goosey after you remove and reinstall stuff a bunch of times.

 

[bwalker]

No not all synthetic oils are hygroscopic, only oils with a large percent of ester, bad and or no corrosion inhibitors exacerbates the issue. The Redline oil you're using is known to be one of the worst when it comes to corrosion. That said if you use your saws regularly it likely won't be an issue, if they sit for awhile, I'd run a different oil.

Really terrible snd I wouldn't trust it for any period of time. I had it turn carb brass black over the course of a week.
Ethanol and MTBE were blained back when I had issues but I was running VP c-12 from sealed drums so no moisture, ethanol, or mtbe was present.

 

[Willard]

Too much advance can fight making RPM. Fought a few saws that needed barely any advance or none at all

I turned my 1982 YZ bikesaw's stator plate as far as it can go and she rips. Did this 35 years ago on it as back then after I built the saw it was stalling dead at WOT in mid cut.
Never stalled since, mind you it only runs about 5 minutes a year.
Pic here I just took shows the old factory setting bolt wear marks on the plate.