What oil is best? and what ratio?

[CR888]

I remember old oil threads when near every member was either running Motul 800 or Belray H1R and they all had 'proof' & 'good reason' to use it. Builders were telling customers to only use these oils and so on. It seems the pack mentality has changed direction. Has the pack got it right this time? Are the followers now following in the right direction? At least we can get a laugh out of it.

 

[sawmikaze]

I remember old oil threads when near every member was either running Motul 800 or Belray H1R and they all had 'proof' & 'good reason' to use it. Builders were telling customers to only use these oils and so on. It seems the pack mentality has changed direction. Has the pack got it right this time? Are the followers now following in the right direction? At least we can get a laugh out of it.

I never bought a single bit of that thick ass bike oil at 32:1 .. i tried it and my saws ran like dick compared to thinner OPE and bike oils at lesser ratios..esp the mtrons and autotuners.

 

[CR500]

Nothing wrong with trying different oils, some people like myslef are interested in how one brand of oil burns different than the next even if it is manufactured by one company like Klotz.

It is amazing how I used to run Stihl HP Ultra at 32:1 and then decided go branch out. My first bike oil to try in a saw was H1R now I'm on the Honda and Yamalube side( good prices and protects very well)


Wish K2 was still cheaper!!! Lol

Sent from my non internal combustion device.

 

[jmssaws]

I've tried lots of oil but never 32:1

 

[KenJax Tree]

Nothing wrong with trying different oils, some people like myslef are interested in how one brand of oil burns different than the next even if it is manufactured by one company like Klotz.

It is amazing how I used to run Stihl HP Ultra at 32:1 and then decided go branch out. My first bike oil to try in a saw was H1R now I'm on the Honda and Yamalube side( good prices and protects very well)


Wish K2 was still cheaper!!! Lol

Sent from my non internal combustion device.

Super M Is half the price of K2. Its a synthetic blend of K2 and petroleum oil

 

[bwalker]

I started to have problems with my Lawnboy Duraforce today surging on me. Started to paw around and found the PTO bearing was bad. No big deal as I had a new short block ready to go.
Anyways this is what the engine looked like internally after being ran on TCW3 marine oil for 80 percent of its 17 year life. The remainder it was run on various low ash jaso FC/FD type oils. For the last 6 years it has seen mostly Penzoil full synthetic marine oil.
The top ring was very tight in its groove. Had it run much longer it would have most certainly stuck. Also of note is the fact that the machine marks on the piston and the cross hatch on the cylinder were in perfect shape. Big end rod bearing did show some whiping, probably from over reving. On a duraforce engine the big end is a roller bearing over a babbitt shell. The babbitt takes a beating if you over rev or run too little oil.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Any oil that pours like sugar cane molasses is probably overkill on a saw. Kl200 doesnt pour or mix like any of thoso oils.

 

[Keith Gandy]

View attachment 24096 I started to have problems with my Lawnboy Duraforce today surging on me. Started to paw around and found the PTO bearing was bad. No big deal as I had a new short block ready to go.
Anyways this is what the engine looked like internally after being ran on TCW3 marine oil for 80 percent of its 17 year life. The remainder it was run on various low ash jaso FC/FD type oils. For the last 6 years it has seen mostly Penzoil full synthetic marine oil.
The top ring was very tight in its groove. Had it run much longer it would have most certainly stuck. Also of note is the fact that the machine marks on the piston and the cross hatch on the cylinder were in perfect shape. Big end rod bearing did show some whiping, probably View attachment 24082 View attachment 24093 from over reving. On a duraforce engine the big end is a roller bearing over a babbitt shell. The babbitt takes a beating if you over rev or run too little oil.

Nasty!!

 

[bwalker]

Nasty!!

Piston crown is much nastier than it looks.
Boat oil in a aircooled motor long term...

 

[Keith Gandy]

Piston crown is much nastier than it looks.
Boat oil in a aircooled motor long term...

Is that pitting on the crown or detonation?

 

[CR500]

I've tried lots of oil but never 32:1

For local customers you deal with the50:1 oil hunt is very valid and worth the time to try oils that are available locally so that you do not see unwanted failures. I appreciate the pictures of 50:1 tear downs with Klotz and is one reason that with some thicker oils like R50 or Motul I will not be afraid to run at 45:1 to 50:1.

Some thin oils may Do very well at 50:1 but I just prefer 32:1 with other oils.

32:1 habbit dies hard lol, especially when you are uses to mixing32:1 for sleds and bikes which that ratio works forward them due to the output and abuse they go through.

R50 at 32:1 in my sled has proven to be a good source of protection, even with the firecat laydown motor which in my opinion is an engine that needs protection due to intake and exhaust setup.



Sent from my non internal combustion device.

 

[bwalker]

Is that pitting on the crown or detonation?

There is no pitting. Just some spots have less gunk than others.

 

[bwalker]

Keith here is what detonation looks like. The particular motor (09 Yamaha YZ-250) came from the factory a bit too hot compression wise. The previous owner then added a Pro Circuit pipe which made the situation worse. Really had to run rich main jets to keep it from detonating. Cold morning and high load, all bets were off.

 

[porsche965]

I like things on the edge.

 

[bwalker]

For local customers you deal with the50:1 oil hunt is very valid and worth the time to try oils that are available locally so that you do not see unwanted failures. I appreciate the pictures of 50:1 tear downs with Klotz and is one reason that with some thicker oils like R50 or Motul I will not be afraid to run at 45:1 to 50:1.

Some thin oils may Do very well at 50:1 but I just prefer 32:1 with other oils.

32:1 habbit dies hard lol, especially when you are uses to mixing32:1 for sleds and bikes which that ratio works forward them due to the output and abuse they go through.

R50 at 32:1 in my sled has proven to be a good source of protection, even with the firecat laydown motor which in my opinion is an engine that needs protection due to intake and exhaust setup.



Sent from my non internal combustion device.

32:1 has never not worked for me.

 

[bwalker]

I like things on the edge.

I use to be like that. However, I have begin to lose the desire to constantly wrench on motors.
Now I just want to gas them up and run the snot out of them.

 

[jmssaws]

I've seen 1 chainsaw that was detonating and it was stock.

 

[bwalker]

I've seen 1 chainsaw that was detonating and it was stock.

The compression ratios are so low and the bore size so small on saws I am not sure how you even do that. If you get a saw hot you typically lean seize it long before detonation starts.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Keith here is what detonation looks like. The particular motor (09 Yamaha YZ-250) came from the factory a bit too hot compression wise. The previous owner then added a Pro Circuit pipe which made the situation worse. Really had to run rich main jets to keep it from detonating. Cold morning and high load, all bets were off.

View attachment 24101

Is it always apparent on the edge only?

 

[bwalker]

Is it always apparent on the edge only?

Yes, it's typically on the edge of the piston and the corresponding area on the head.
Pre ignition can look simular, but it's typically toward the center of the piston.