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Small saw timing advance

STOVE

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I read lots of posts about timing advances on 50cc saws and larger.

Do people advance the timing on smaller 30-40cc saws? Does it provide a noticeable enough difference to be worth the effort?
 

PA Dan

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I read lots of posts about timing advances on 50cc saws and larger.

Do people advance the timing on smaller 30-40cc saws? Does it provide a noticeable enough difference to be worth the effort?
I do. Once you have done a couple the effort isnt much. If you do it and the saw doesn't like it you can always move it back to stock. Only saw i found that doesn't like it is a MS361.
 

STOVE

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I do. Once you have done a couple the effort isnt much. If you do it and the saw doesn't like it you can always move it back to stock. Only saw i found that doesn't like it is a MS361.
From what I understand there is a happy medium in how far you advance. Is there a rule of thumb on what to do? I have read 1/5 the key, 1/6 the key and as far as 1/4 the key.

I am thinking about it on my CS-400
 

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I wrote this at 5:30 and forgot to post it, and Kevin said the same thing in fewer words. Here it is anyway.


From what I understand there is a happy medium in how far you advance. Is there a rule of thumb on what to do? I have read 1/5 the key, 1/6 the key and as far as 1/4 the key.

I am thinking about it on my CS-400
Echo has one of the most sophisticated timing curves in the industry built into their coils. I really doubt you will see a lot of benefits due to how hard it is already advancing. IMG_0806.jpeg
 

Tomos770

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What is/does "PET-9000 parameter"?
 

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It is very noticeable on something like a Stihl 251 ( around 45 cc or so ). I have one very slightly modded ( timing advance and muffler mod ) & there was a pretty good / noticeable difference from stock. I also have a stock CS-400 like you but I like having one smaller stock saw for smaller stuff, limbing etc....
Since as the others have chimed in on the timing of that saw- you might want to try a muffler mod ( gut the muffler ) & retune to see . If you do - let us know how it turned out.
 

STOVE

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It is very noticeable on something like a Stihl 251 ( around 45 cc or so ). I have one very slightly modded ( timing advance and muffler mod ) & there was a pretty good / noticeable difference from stock. I also have a stock CS-400 like you but I like having one smaller stock saw for smaller stuff, limbing etc....
Since as the others have chimed in on the timing of that saw- you might want to try a muffler mod ( gut the muffler ) & retune to see . If you do - let us know how it turned out.
It’s been muff modded, and limiters removed. Dropped the bar to 16 and using the Dukes full chisel. It’s an awesome setup as is. From the sounds of it I have it as good as she will get.

Excited to run it this afternoon
 

Fleethirte

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Isnt there a little play in the flywheel when installing that in essence you can give it the smallest advance without shaving the key?
 

dangerousatom

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IMO play is bad. It will lend enough wiggle room to “bang/bend w/e” the key until it gets buggered up and then breaks. I have only had a key strip on one old saw, it was reluctant to start after many pulls. But it sheered the key, I can’t say if it was an abrupt cut or working through it over time as the key was only 1/2 there when I pulled off the FW. I have shimmed a few keys with sheet copper to fit tight. Copper is nice because you can make it thinner with a few hits of a hammer on a vice if it doesn’t fit in the key slot gap.

I have 2 saws under 50cc that are 3degree shimmed and they run happier at full throttle.
 
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Sloughfoot

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IMO play is bad. It will lend enough wiggle room to “bang/bend w/e” the key until it gets buggered up and then breaks. I have shimmed a few keys with sheet copper to fit tight. Copper is nice because you can make it thinner with a few hits of a hammer on a vice if it doesn’t fit in the key slot gap.

I have 2 saws under 50cc that are 3degree shimmed and they run happier at full throttle.
I can see that if the flywheel is wallowed out and loose. The pros that know say a good flywheel doesn't need the woodruff key to stay in position if it's torqued to spec.
 

fredx

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I can see that if the flywheel is wallowed out and loose. The pros that know say a good flywheel doesn't need the woodruff key to stay in position if it's torqued to spec.
Is it on a taper or is the shaft straight?
 

dangerousatom

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Is it on a taper or is the shaft straight?
That is a good point, I believe the old craftsman that I’m remembering was a straight shaft so it would not seat under torque like a tapered…..don’t know why I never thought of that, but it was a long time ago when i first started fiddling with saws.
 

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I can see that if the flywheel is wallowed out and loose. The pros that know say a good flywheel doesn't need the woodruff key to stay in position if it's torqued to spec.
This is accurate. That is why flywheel nut torque is so critical. Too loose, and it shears the key; too tight, and the extreme taper pressure could crack the flywheel.
 

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What about CS-2511T?
I used to advance the timing on them but it makes some of them more difficult to start. Not harder to pull over, but it’s like the spark happens too early and they just don’t want to light off without the trigger being pulled
 
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