Project Farm electric saw shoot-out

[FergusonTO35]

I'm not against battery stuff, but not interested in being at the the mercy of manufacturers which change battery systems like the weather. I don't make enough money to go replace all my chargers/tools/batteries when the OEM decides to add another 2v.

 

[Philbert]

I'm not against battery stuff, but not interested in being at the the mercy of manufacturers which change battery systems like the weather. I don't make enough money to go replace all my chargers/tools/batteries when the OEM decides to add another 2v.

That’s a good reason to choose your battery platform, before choosing a tool.

Will they be there in X years, with their proprietary batteries?

Are you already invested in other tools that use the same batteries?

The last few times I checked, Batteries Plus said they would not rebuild a Li-ion battery pack.

For some, very popular batteries, there are some aftermarket batteries sold. For example, a neighbor used to buy replacement 7.2V, ‘stick’ batteries, for an old, Makita drill, off Amazon, eBay, etc.

Philbert

 

[RCBS]

Have had the 18v Mak for 3 or 4 years. Bought it to cull grape vine. It excelled at that job. Was just using it yesterday afternoon trying to avoid going back to the truck to get the real saw. Thermal shutdowns to get through a 5-1/2" sugar maple branch... ~4/5. It *could be so awesome. Summertime is worse. I do still use it regularly, but almost every time I do I again ask myself why. If it would just run continuously I'd give it a 8/10. It don't, so a whole 4/10 is where I put it. Good design. Poor execution. Vents all open, no frass in the body, batteries in working condition. It has no excuses. They shoulda put a fan on it (every single flywheel on gas saws) somewhere I guess?

 

[wood4pit]

Brings up an interesting question to me.

Would the market for battery tools be further along ( from the consumer perspective ) if well designed standard batteries
had been introduced early. I would be more inclined to jump into battery saws if i could believe batteries would be available 10 yr from now.

 

[Philbert]

The EU has a new, common battery platform. Different manufacturers use the same batteries. Not all.

But, at a recent trade show, several reps commented that their more advanced batteries have unique form factors, to fit their tools; and have internal circuits that ‘communicate’ with their tools for current / amperage draw, etc.

EPTA - European Power Tool Association - Rechargeable batteries

Cordless power tools are the fastest growing segment of the power tool market and this trend is expected to continue. Cordless power tools use various rechargeable battery chemistries as their source of energy.

www.epta.eu

Philbert

 

[whitesnake]

The EU has a new, common battery platform. Different manufacturers use the same batteries. Not all.

But, at a recent trade show, several reps commented that their more advanced batteries have unique form factors, to fit their tools; and have internal circuits that ‘communicate’ with their tools for current / amperage draw, etc.

EPTA - European Power Tool Association - Rechargeable batteries

Cordless power tools are the fastest growing segment of the power tool market and this trend is expected to continue. Cordless power tools use various rechargeable battery chemistries as their source of energy.

www.epta.eu

Philbert

It would be neat if there was a universal battery system but I have a hard time seeing it happen. They make a ton of money on battery’s. That’s one of the things I hate most about cordless is I fear having thousands and thousands invested in tools and have them switch batteries on me. That would be enough to possibly switch me back to cords, air lines, and gasoline lol.

 

[Philbert]

That would be enough to possibly switch me back to cords, air lines, and gasoline lol.

I’m so old that most of my tools have cords! Including chainsaws, lawn care equipment, etc.!

I only got into battery powered OPE when some companies sent me stuff to try / evaluate, 13+ years ago.

Really started to appreciate the convenience of good quality, battery powered tools, and can certainly understand why contractors use them.

But I remodeled my house with extension cords running all over the place.

And I find good quality (Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, etc.) corded, contractor tools (routers, reciprocating saws, 1/2” drills, etc.) at garage sales so cheap ($5, $10, $20, etc.) that at first I thought they had to be stolen!

Philbert

 

[MarcS]

I'm not against battery stuff, but not interested in being at the the mercy of manufacturers which change battery systems like the weather. I don't make enough money to go replace all my chargers/tools/batteries when the OEM decides to add another 2v.

I think the battery stuff is going through the same radical innovation that gas OPE did in the 50’s and 60’s. It will all standardize in basic size and format after a while. Batteries will probably stay proprietary so that won’t help the point you made though.

 

[HokieJoe]

Seems like stock 20" is all the bigger any of them offer. Milwaukee claims 70cc power from their dual battery 18v saw, but something tells me there's a reason it comes with a 20" .325 chain.

Milwaukee claims a lot of things.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Milwaukee claims a lot of things.

If you've watched the cutting videos of that saw, you will think it's slower than a 50cc saw.

 

[Wilhelm]

They ALL "claim" a lot!

The battery wattage needed to match 2-stroke engine HP & rpm is not something a 18/20/36/40Volt system can deliver CONTINUOUSLY ALL DAY LONG.

 

[el33t]

They ALL "claim" a lot!

The battery wattage needed to match 2-stroke engine HP & rpm is not something a 18/20/36/40Volt system can deliver CONTINUOUSLY ALL DAY LONG.

Without denying the validity of the point about the practical differences that exist between electric motor/Li-Ion battery and internal combustion engine/gasoline drives...

The brake power (or "battery wattage") of the electric motor in a chainsaw does not have to match the (horse)power (torque+rpm) of the internal combustion engine to achieve higher (or the same) cutting speed.
This is due to the huge (instantaneous) torque fluctuation of the one cylinder ICE that comes from the reciprocating motion of the piston. The piston has to stop to change direction.
This introduces a huge disruption in the cutting process performed by the chain's cutters. Measurements show that there are (brief) moments (when using a gas saw) where cutting is stopped. This phenomenon does not occur in electric motors. It may also not have occurred in KMS 4.

Using an electric chainsaw will cut noticeably more wood using the same amount of energy on the shaft. This is easily confirmed by recalculating how much energy (joules, watt-hours, BTUs, whatever) both types of saws use to do the same job. Even after factoring in the abysmal engine efficiency (~20%) of the average (modern) 2-stroke gas chainsaw and the energy it wastes at idle, the electric saw will still be significantly more efficient.

In the tests conducted, an electric saw with a maximum power of 1 kW on the shaft had an average 23% higher cutting speed than a gasoline saw with an engine with a maximum power of 1.9 kW. Part of the advantage, of course, may also come from the torque curve, which may be more useful for the cutting process.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I have often thought that electric tool technology would jump light years ahead if it could ever be figured out how to make a battery that stores AC current. Or, create a fuel cell that could accomplish the same thing in a power tool size format.

 

[RCBS]

I have often thought that electric tool technology would jump light years ahead if it could ever be figured out how to make a battery that stores AC current. Or, create a fuel cell that could accomplish the same thing in a power tool size format.

Far as I can reckon, it's a compression issue. It's dang hard to compress the same amount of energy contained in gasoline in any given space into current battery options occupying the same space. Fuel cans are much much cheaper than batteries. I've been waiting for one of the manu's to drop a 7hp unit with a 25lb backpack because I want the logger's opinions of such. I want to like the 'lectric saws, but remain unimpressed. They've been out over a decade and are just now cracking 60cc power levels? Sigh. It can only mean that the batteries are the choke point. Bring on the Dilithium Crystals.

 

[Philbert]

They've been out over a decade and are just now cracking 60cc power levels? Sigh. It can only mean that the batteries are the choke point.

I’ve had battery-powered chainsaws going on 14 years now: from when people dismissed them as ‘jokes’ or ‘toys’.

And I’ve followed them, predicting that, like cordless drills and ither contractor tools, they would keep getting better.

There are battery powered cut-off saws that exceed that 60cc power level, but they are heavy.

People don’t like heavy chainsaws, and they don’t want to keep swapping batteries, so there are design trade offs.

But keep watching.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

This one just showed up in my mailbox too!



Philbert

 

[HumBurner]

Husqy has a whole line of heavy-duty batter tools, including cutoff saws and huge drills.

 

[RCBS]

I’ve had battery-powered chainsaws going on 14 years now: from when people dismissed them as ‘jokes’ or ‘toys’.

And I’ve followed them, predicting that, like cordless drills and ither contractor tools, they would keep getting better.

There are battery powered cut-off saws that exceed that 60cc power level, but they are heavy.

People don’t like heavy chainsaws, and they don’t want to keep swapping batteries, so there are design trade offs.

But keep watching.

Philbert

View attachment 460018

This (file pic) was my introduction to battery saws. I still have it though I don't know why. Sortof a novelty really. I should probably get rid of it as it only occupies space.

 

[Philbert]

Husqy has a whole line of heavy-duty batter tools, including cutoff saws and huge drills.

Husqvarna’s construction division has a lot of different tools than their forestry division.

Sometimes, you will see them side-by-side at a contractor’s show. But, usually, at separate vendors

Philbert

 

[el33t]

I want to like the 'lectric saws, but remain unimpressed. They've been out over a decade and are just now cracking 60cc power levels? Sigh. It can only mean that the batteries are the choke point.

There are battery powered cut-off saws that exceed that 60cc power level, but they are heavy.

Meanwhile, we already have chainsaws that are supposed to correspond to "80cc". I would call that progress.

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