ms 461 woods port race thing

[paragonbuilder]

Flywheel fan is keepin that side of the cylinder cooler and not combusting as much as the otherside

Keith is that a known fact or a guess?
Seems to me the fins on the cylinder would even out heat. But that’s just a guess on my part.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Keith is that a known fact or a guess?
Seems to me the fins on the cylinder would even out heat. But that’s just a guess on my part.

Whats keeping the PTO side cool? It has a clutch adding extra heat to that side. Only makes sense the flywheel side would be cooler with air circulating at that speed around it and cooling the fins more on that side? Kinda changes the outlook on what needs to happen on that side of the cylinder if thats true?

 

[paragonbuilder]

Whats keeping the PTO side cool? It has a clutch adding extra heat to that side. Only makes sense the flywheel side would be cooler with air circulating at that speed around it and cooling the fins more on that side? Kinda changes the outlook on what needs to happen on that side of the cylinder if thats true?

I don’t see it that way.
2 things to consider. And these are not facts, just how I see it...
1.)The flywheel pulls air through the “skins” across the fins, to cool the cylinder. It’s the only way any cooling is achieved. As such the air crossing the fins if anything gets hotter as it approaches the flywheel side.
2.) with the fins, cylinder wall, and rings all creating heat sinks and dispersion, I can’t see the piston actually being cooler on one side. the piston gets equal combustion flame until the transfers open, than the fresh charge washes some of the soot/ carbon off.
Thus my conclusion is that there are differing amounts/ direction of the charge on the flywheel side.
JMHO

 

[Keith Gandy]

I don’t see it that way.
2 things to consider. And these are not facts, just how I see it...
1.)The flywheel pulls air through the “skins” across the fins, to cool the cylinder. It’s the only way any cooling is achieved. As such the air crossing the fins if anything gets hotter as it approaches the flywheel side.

I wont dismiss the notion without further trials to prove myself wrong. May miss out on a big gain?

 

[cus_deluxe]

I think if there was a SIGNIFICANT difference between the temp of the piston from one side to the other, due to flywheel cooling there would be issues...

 

[cus_deluxe]

wheres julie-ann with the thermocouple ?! @Redbull661

 

[Keith Gandy]

I don’t see it that way.
2 things to consider. And these are not facts, just how I see it...
1.)The flywheel pulls air through the “skins” across the fins, to cool the cylinder. It’s the only way any cooling is achieved. As such the air crossing the fins if anything gets hotter as it approaches the flywheel side.
2.) with the fins, cylinder wall, and rings all creating heat sinks and dispersion, I can’t see the piston actually being cooler on one side. the piston gets equal combustion flame until the transfers open, than the fresh charge washes some of the soot/ carbon off.
Thus my conclusion is that there are differing amounts/ direction of the charge on the flywheel side.
JMHO

That would be incorrect IMO. There are temp. Differences in there apparent from wash patterns?

 

[XP_Slinger]

Good discussion. I agree with Dan on the subject, I don’t think one side of the piston and jug are cooler than each other to the extent that it would create uneven combustion heat causing such a drastically different wash.

Good discussion aside, I think we’re getting a little to the left of what Scott is working toward in this thread.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Anyway thats my BS for today! Scott u got another video? This is interesting and mighty nice of u to apply time into this and also to share!! Thank you

 

[paragonbuilder]

I wont dismiss the notion without further trials to prove myself wrong. May miss out on a big gain?

I’m not dismissing it either Keith, I don’t know that you or I am right or wrong, just enjoying this discussion, your thoughts made me sit and think. [emoji41] I like that. It’s these differing points of view that help us find new gains!

 

[Keith Gandy]

I’m not dismissing it either Keith, I don’t know that you or I am right or wrong, just enjoying this discussion, your thoughts made me sit and think. [emoji41] I like that. It’s these differing points of view that help us find new gains!

Just ideas Dan

 

[paragonbuilder]

That would be incorrect IMO. There are temp. Differences in there apparent from wash patterns?

Perhaps, but if that were true, we would see offset wash patterns on every chainsaw we worked on, no? And it would always be more wash on the flywheel side?


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[Keith Gandy]

Perhaps, but if that were true, we would see offset wash patterns on every chainsaw we worked on, no? And it would always be more wash on the flywheel side?


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Wash patterns depend on tuning of the saw. Richer= more wash / leaner = less wash

 

[paragonbuilder]

Wash patterns depend on tuning of the saw. Richer= more wash leaner = less wash

Yes, but we’re discussing the flywheel side being cooler affecting the wash pattern


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[Keith Gandy]

Yes, but we’re discussing the flywheel side being cooler affecting the wash pattern


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I say its the temp. Difference. Of course offset porting could cause it also

 

[paragonbuilder]

I say its the temp. Difference. Of course offset porting could cause it also

Keith you work on a lot of saws, have you taken note of the patterns when tearing them down? I haven’t. But I will be paying attention now!


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[huskihl]

Keith is that a known fact or a guess?
Seems to me the fins on the cylinder would even out heat. But that’s just a guess on my part.

Nearly every fan-cooled snowmobile had/has a cooler plug on the pto side to offset this

 

[tree monkey]

Scott, a peanut gallery type question here. Will this R&D only be applicable to this saw or will you learn something that affects the way you port all 461's or all saws with quads?

what I learn doing this does go into the next saws, i'm always trying to improve what i'm doing

Anyway thats my BS for today! Scott u got another video? This is interesting and mighty nice of u to apply time into this and also to share!! Thank you

I can't keep up with my phone, pm's , this thread, work on the saw, and make vids, and your asking for a vid, well ok. here you go.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Nearly every fan-cooled snowmobile had/has a cooler plug on the pto side to offset this

But in the same combustion chamber? Perhaps? I think we need Julian here!!!


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[Keith Gandy]

what I learn doing this does go into the next saws, i'm always trying to improve what i'm doing




I can't keep up with my phone, pm's , this thread, work on the saw, and make vids, and your asking for a vid, well ok. here you go.