Modifying Oil Pumps

[Dub11]

Honestly, that is the biggest problem with most cheap and homeowner grade saws. They just don't oil enough for extended cuts, even if the saw is up to it. With my Poulan, I would usually let it rest between cuts so the oil would catch up or shoot oil into the bar groove with a squirt can.

The PP 3516avx I got will go through a tank of oil almost twice as fast a tank of gas. Now the older 2150s and stuff are stingy.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Honestly, that is the biggest problem with most cheap and homeowner grade saws. They just don't oil enough for extended cuts, even if the saw is up to it. With my Poulan, I would usually let it rest between cuts so the oil would catch up or shoot oil into the bar groove with a squirt can.

My rule of thumb for those is take at least four inch off the big box store bar. Most are 18-22" 20 going down to 14 makes a wet bar firewood cutter. Most big box store chainsaw bars are JUNK! Echo would be the best one on the market and fairly hard steel. The Husky ain't what it used to be. Makitas seem ok imo.

 

[Sty57]

Did ya slow down for it?

Hope he didn't spill any beer.........

 

[67L36Driver]

The PP 3516avx I got will go through a tank of oil almost twice as fast a tank of gas. Now the older 2150s and stuff are stingy.

Most all them little plastic Poulan oil like the Exxon Valdez.

 

[Dub11]

Most all them little plastic Poulan oil like the Exxon Valdez.

Yeah I remember the first few times using it thinking the oiler was not working properly. Little did I know it was just using it that fast.

 

[Lightning Performance]

It's dance day, again

This is a link to what happened.

This picture shows the difference in the 461 regular oiler vs a modified oiler or HO oiler, I can't remember where I stole the picture from, it was either from Lakeside Andy or Mdavlee?



View attachment 31872

Ok, I looked it up. I believe it is the aus model for 660

Control bolt-1128-647-4802
Pump piston-1122-647-0602

Whole pump
1122-640-3201
Lakeside53 did a 3 part how to swap them out.

Randy, awesome info and pictures!!
Thanks !!!

Some oil pumps (can't remember which ones) have a really tiny hole where oil enters the pump, like 1/16". I've enlarged that hole a bit with success after doing a normal oil pump mod didn't yield satisfactory results

Notice that tight dance tec and where Ricky got it from.

 

[67L36Driver]

I just put a 1122-640-3201 pump in the client’s 066.

Some disappointed I am. [emoji57]

But, he’s running an aux oiler milling anyway.

It’s the angle of the ramp (total back and forth travel) that determines the output.

 

[Lightning Performance]

From what I measured on three used 1122 standard pumps, the control bolt will yield 0.008-0.010 more travel to complete the factory available stroke and land on the piston. Very easy to check by eye or with a small feeler gauge. The ramp needs ten to twelve added I guess. I will do all the inlets and outlets while they are torn down. One housing is shot, drum rub got it but not the piston.

You think 0.015 added to the volume pocket helps or try just the two mods first?

 

[Lightning Performance]

My pump housings are 2x 0462A and 1x 0405 last four digits. Rear face marked 2x 1.1 and 1x 1.4 but they are all dressed with the same hardware with the same port sizes.

 

[drf256]

From what I measured on three used 1122 standard pumps, the control bolt will yield 0.008-0.010 more travel to complete the factory available stroke and land on the piston. Very easy to check by eye or with a small feeler gauge. The ramp needs ten to twelve added I guess. I will do all the inlets and outlets while they are torn down. One housing is shot, drum rub got it but not the piston.

You think 0.015 added to the volume pocket helps or try just the two mods first?

Opening the shaft pocket makes zero sense, at least to me.

Think about it, you’re adding a bigger volume expanded and a bigger volume contacted. What pumps is just the difference in volume, which stays the same.

There’s only so much you can shape the ramp before it won’t do anything. Just put the control bolt and the shaft in proper alignment and have a looksie. You’ll see how much you can get away with.

I’ve made an 036 pump that can oil a 36” bar with Kevin’s tomfoolery above. The key is to not run out of oil before gas.

 

[XP_Slinger]

Just recently did this mod on my 357 which was only using a half tank of oil to a tank of fuel with the Oiler cranked all the up...too stingy, bar was getting hot. Didn’t open up any passages, that doesn’t make sense to me. I increased the plunger angle only. Haven’t cut with yet but will report back when I get a chance.

 

[huskihl]

Opening the shaft pocket makes zero sense, at least to me.

I wasn't sure either. But we rarely leave the intake timing stock when we port a saw. Same thing.....

 

[Lightning Performance]

Spent some time scratching muh head, again. The two style pump pistons I have are basically the same. I used the worst two worn parts to try out. My ramps were terrible and I don't see a long future in this pump but, the stroke was 30-32 thou. It is now 68-70
Did not touch the intake and exit ports. They are all the same size as the internal transfers passages. My ramps are angled now, except on the very top of the bottom out ramp on the control bolt. The control bolt is down to a third of what was there before. The bolt ramp peels away just before hitting the gear teeth at the end of the stroke. It rolls thirty degrees free before picking back up on the new ramp.
My mistake was cutting the second ramp on the control bolt. It does not need to be cut down. When you alter it you lose stroke. Cutting a control bolt tip only allows more travel if the ramp is lowered on the piston gear. Figured that out buy switching back and forth with a stock control bolt. I need a diamond file or an Emory board or a holding jig mounted with the cutter tool.
Should flood the bar. Taking it back out now to inspect the witness marks from the piss rev. It still spins. That 660 sounds good and so does the 066. Just got a noodle video.
Edit 6:07 typo

 

[drf256]

I wasn't sure either. But we rarely leave the intake timing stock when we port a saw. Same thing.....

Can’t agree. If you said inlet and outlet of oil, I would.

Making the case bigger itself is another story. I guess pressure might change. But this is non-compressible oil, not air.

 

[huskyboy]

I was bored today so I decided to increase the oil output of the little dolly 421. It was a little dry looking on the chain after cutting some dead ash. This is probably the easiest oil pump to modify ever. Don’t even have to take apart the pump. I used vise grips to hold the bolt down while I steepened the angle by 30 thousandths with a dremel cut off wheel. Deburred with 320 grit. Thing pisses oil off a 16” bar now. I bet a 20” bar could be oiled fine now. It was harder to take it apart than to mod the oiler on this thing. Lol

 

[huskyboy]

Just recently did this mod on my 357 which was only using a half tank of oil to a tank of fuel with the Oiler cranked all the up...too stingy, bar was getting hot. Didn’t open up any passages, that doesn’t make sense to me. I increased the plunger angle only. Haven’t cut with yet but will report back when I get a chance.

The 421 oiler is literally a carbon copy of this oil pump style. Can even do it without completely disassembling the oiler. Pretty awesome.

 

[XP_Slinger]

The 421 oiler is literally a carbon copy of this oil pump style. Can even do it without completely disassembling the oiler. Pretty awesome.

Yep it’s nice when a mod is as simple as this one.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Opening the shaft pocket makes zero sense, at least to me.

Think about it, you’re adding a bigger volume expanded and a bigger volume contacted. What pumps is just the difference in volume, which stays the same.

There’s only so much you can shape the ramp before it won’t do anything. Just put the control bolt and the shaft in proper alignment and have a looksie. You’ll see how much you can get away with.

I’ve made an 036 pump that can oil a 36” bar with Kevin’s tomfoolery above. The key is to not run out of oil before gas.

Mine must be too much. It floods the bar but ate the nylon gear. Must be drag on the steep lead on. The pump is free. The gear was new.

 

[mdavlee]

The increase in normal to high output is only .4mm

 

[Lightning Performance]

Oh well. It's just a pump gear.