Machining base without a lathe*

[jb-chainsaws]

I can't wait to see what you come up with to cut the band.

The next saw I need to cut the base on I'm going to use your method. I've been sanding them.

Where did you get a sander with a horizontal disc? Or is it home made?

 

[czar800]

Where did you get a sander with a horizontal disc? Or is it home made?

I got it at one of the big box stores.

 

[jb-chainsaws]

That's really cool, what's it actually called? I'd love to get something similar in the UK

 

[jmssaws]

Measure a bunch of stock cylinders at the bolt holes,the ks I ported today was 020 different from corner to corner,measure a bunch of oem pistons and you'll stop using ten thousands.
You would have to try to get one off by much just taking 20 or 30 thousands off.

Like anything else you develop a feel for it.

 

[cease232]

That's really cool, what's it actually called? I'd love to get something similar in the UK

I'd suggest a disc sander. Comes in lots of sized. Can be found on Craigslist easily. The heavier and better it is the less runout the disc will have.

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[Chainsaw Jim]

Yeah out of all four corners there's usually one that's got more meat on top. Just don't forget which one it was if you're doing it by hand.

 

[czar800]

I just number each corner and measure before and after.

 

[czar800]

 

[czar800]

Trust me when I say that there's better tools and methods, but I only do a few saws a year just for fun.

 

[Al Smith]

Looks like it worked as oppossed to a long gone fellow who once annoyed everybody on the sites .

I suppose you could do it with a flat file and lots of elbow grease .Some have used a milling machine.

I'd think you would be better with a 1/2 or 3/4 HP router as oppossed to the 3.5 HP I have. If that thing got away from you it could prune fingers as easy as tooth pick .Needless to say I have a great respect for a router.

 

[jmssaws]

Years ago I cut several bases with a file and sandpaper. Didn't know any better

 

[cease232]

Looks like it worked as oppossed to a long gone fellow who once annoyed everybody on the sites .

I suppose you could do it with a flat file and lots of elbow grease .Some have used a milling machine.

I'd think you would be better with a 1/2 or 3/4 HP router as oppossed to the 3.5 HP I have. If that thing got away from you it could prune fingers as easy as tooth pick .Needless to say I have a great respect for a router.

Haha I remember that pointless thread. Variable speed helps a lot. I had it set to the slowest setting.
I accidentally touched a spinning router bit one time. Just nicked the skin and took part of the fingernail off. Ever since then my heart rate increases whenever I use the router. If you've never googled router injury don't do it! Few things can mangle a hand like a router.


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[drf256]

How do you ensure that the base is being taken down evenly on a sander? I'd be concerned that you've take off say 5 thou more on one side than the other just based on your hand pressure, which would surely cause a bigger deflection at the top of the cylinder, effectively making one side of the piston rub the cylinder.

Just my speculation, I'd like to hear some real life examples of this just because I'm curious and I like being proved wrong. It's how I learn

I'd like to hear what Jim does as well. I scribe a reference line around the base and use that for reference. Would 0.005 affect performance? I'm probably not smart enough to answer that but I've found in life that if I wait for everything to be "perfect" I never get anything accomplished.


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I think it would be important to measure at each bolt location before sanding and if different, log the numbers and maintain the difference. Otherwise if they are the same check and adjust as necessary as you go.


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How do you adjust this whilst:

1. Keeping the base flat
2. Not taking too much off

I don't doubt you do a good job, I'm just commenting on the things I'd balls up on

My OCD makes me worry about the same thing. The 4 corners are never the same thickness on any jug I've checked. Then there's the variation I get depending on how I hold the caliper/micrometer on the corner. That alone can make a few thousandths difference for me.

I want zero difference side to side. I can see front to back being an non issue as the piston can tilt, but a side being off would surely load a piston in an unhealthy way. Maybe the amount of cycles needed to make it fail in the real world would take years, but I don't know.

In my own saw that I would never sell, I could see doing this. But anything that would ever be sold to another wouldn't get this treatment AFAIC. I'd only use a lathe.

Anything that leaves here has to be 100% on the money to avoid any failure or argument in the future. Not being a snob, I just never want a fight or my workmanship being questioned.

 

[mdavlee]

When I cut bases on a lathe I pick a corner to measure and use that one for the thickness taken off.

I'd use this method if that's what I had. I can't see it being any different than the tolerances on most of these chinese lathes we use any way.

 

[cease232]

As a woodworker I appreciate craftsmanship and attention to detail more than most. Lots of people build great saws lots of different ways. Longevity is another question altogether.

I posted this pic on AS because some over there seemed very concerned about absolute flatness of the cylinder base. How often are we checking the cases? Two surfaces butted together will never be "flat" IMO, unless they were milled after mating together. To go back to what Jim said earlier no two OEM cylinders will be the same and some are off already. After reading that I went and checked an OEM Mahle cylinder and it was less "flat" than the one I just milled with a router. Case flatness, cast cylinders, tooling and operator skill all makes me think thousandths aren't as important as we might think [emoji848]


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[Termitebuffet]

(Outside the box) could these miniscule differences be what makes one saw run better than another, even with the exact same numbers ? [emoji513]

Zoo City Sawz

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

As a woodworker I appreciate craftsmanship and attention to detail more than most. Lots of people build great saws lots of different ways. Longevity is another question altogether.

I posted this pic on AS because some over there seemed very concerned about absolute flatness of the cylinder base. How often are we checking the cases? Two surfaces butted together will never be "flat" IMO, unless they were milled after mating together. To go back to what Jim said earlier no two OEM cylinders will be the same and some are off already. After reading that I went and checked an OEM Mahle cylinder and it was less "flat" than the one I just milled with a router. Case flatness, cast cylinders, tooling and operator skill all makes me think thousandths aren't as important as we might think [emoji848]


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That's exactly why I don't use anaerobic sealers on the cylinder base.

 

[Red97]

That's exactly why I don't use anaerobic sealers on the cylinder base.

In anerobic defense, most are good for .015 gap, some others up to .030+.

But that is a good reason to wait for full cure.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

In anerobic defense, most are good for .015 gap, some others up to .030+.

But that is a good reason to wait for full cure.

It's brittle and little chunks can break loose. Especially if you didn't clean the surfaces properly.

 

[dall]

My OCD makes me worry about the same thing. The 4 corners are never the same thickness on any jug I've checked. Then there's the variation I get depending on how I hold the caliper/micrometer on the corner. That alone can make a few thousandths difference for me.

I want zero difference side to side. I can see front to back being an non issue as the piston can tilt, but a side being off would surely load a piston in an unhealthy way. Maybe the amount of cycles needed to make it fail in the real world would take years, but I don't know.

In my own saw that I would never sell, I could see doing this. But anything that would ever be sold to another wouldn't get this treatment AFAIC. I'd only use a lathe.

Anything that leaves here has to be 100% on the money to avoid any failure or argument in the future. Not being a snob, I just never want a fight or my workmanship being questioned.

i have a couple of als saws and he is very particular about the saws and i appreciate that