Let’s Talk 404

[RI Chevy]

Nice. You hand file square that chain?
What kind of rim sprocket is that?

 

[Willard]

Nice. You hand file square that chain?
What kind of rim sprocket is that?

Yep hand file it, easy enough to do as the chain is already square ground chisel bit.
This chain from the 1970's has good consistent angles and a hell of a good honed edge right off the roll. Not like the un consistent cutter lengths etc. chain of today.

That's a Oregon 8 tooth .404 rim sprocket.

 

[RI Chevy]

Wow. They had square ground chain back in the 70's? I'm impressed.

 

[Willard]

Wow. They had square ground chain back in the 70's? I'm impressed.

There's been square ground chain alot earlier then the 1970's

 

[RI Chevy]

Interesting. I never ever knew that. I thought it was fairly a new concept.

 

[Willard]

Interesting. I never ever knew that. I thought it was fairly a new concept.

Chisel bit goes back to the 1950's.

 

[RI Chevy]

Cool. Never knew any of this.

 

[morewood]

Got the chain from Madsens...27ax. I believe the saw could pull this cutter on full comp 36". Any way, going to need a longer bar for this oddball stuff, anybody know of a 50"+ ?

Mr Awesome

I can't afford a Cannon, not used enough to justify.

 

[Wilhelm]

Dolmar PS-7900 & 65DL/20" .404" round tooth B&C setup

 

[RonL]

I use .404 semi on a 32" Cannon Superbar plus on my 660 when I am cutting up deadfalls and other crap. Lasts much longer.

 

[ferris]

Dolmar PS-7900 & 65DL/20" .404" round tooth B&C setup

Do you feel That the saw had to work much harder compared to 3/8?

 

[deye223]

In our Aussie hard woods they do but it is more than worth it for how much longer it stays sharp ....... I would like stihl to bring out a 3/8 chain with 404 size cutters .

 

[CR888]

Yep hand file it, easy enough to do as the chain is already square ground chisel bit.
This chain from the 1970's has good consistent angles and a hell of a good honed edge right off the roll. Not like the un consistent cutter lengths etc. chain of today.

That's a Oregon 8 tooth .404 rim sprocket.

I think there is a lot of truth to older chain being higher quality, not necessarily 'better' but it just appears more care was taken during its assembly, manufacture & factory grind. Perhaps today the top tier chain producers have so many cheap Asian imports to compete with, it don't help. But this is a trend that has happened with many products. I suppose though today consumers are better of in general buying chain though.

 

[Willard]

In our Aussie hard woods they do but it is more than worth it for how much longer it stays sharp ....... I would like stihl to bring out a 3/8 chain with 404 size cutters .

Not sure about Stihl chain but about 10 years ago Oregon made a 3/8" chisel chain with heavier cutters like a .404 chain.

Was intended to cut a wider kerf in oversized softwood like cedar and fir.

 

[Wilhelm]

Do you feel That the saw had to work much harder compared to 3/8?

Yes, the PH is pulled down much more than with a very aggressive 3/8" chisel tooth same bar length same wood species.
But honestly, it could be due to the .404" being round tooth.

Getting a chisel tooth .404" for comparison would shed some light on this matter.

 

[Homemade]

So, why is .404 pretty much only in .063 gauge? I run everything 3/8 .050 and was thinking of converting a 20” bar (seeing how I have several) to .404 by changing the tip. This would be for playing with and having a super durable chain for stumping. But I can’t find hardly and .404 in .050 gauge.

I already have a bar in .404 x .058,and trying to find a chain for that is like looking for 1/2” pitch chain.

 

[deye223]

Yes, the PH is pulled down much more than with a very aggressive 3/8" chisel tooth same bar length same wood species.
But honestly, it could be due to the .404" being round tooth.

Getting a chisel tooth .404" for comparison would shed some light on this matter.

I tried a chisel 404 chain and it loads the saw even more as the Kerr is wider just wait till see how big the cutters are .

 

[huskihl]

So, why is .404 pretty much only in .063 gauge? I run everything 3/8 .050 and was thinking of converting a 20” bar (seeing how I have several) to .404 by changing the tip. This would be for playing with and having a super durable chain for stumping. But I can’t find hardly and .404 in .050 gauge.

I already have a bar in .404 x .058,and trying to find a chain for that is like looking for 1/2” pitch chain.

Because it's a stronger chain made for larger saws and harvesters. A .063 drive link is considerably stronger than .050. And they say 063 carries oil better on longer bars

 

[CR888]

They used to make 050 .404 I 'think', but nobody nowadays does anymore. For .404 .063 works well. I love cutting with a nice .404 chain, last week I noodled non stop 3 tanks of pine with my hopped up 660 & it was soft & fast. I was making some mulch for yard citrus trees & plant. After the chain was no where near blunt I touched it up on the grinder but it didn't really 'need' it.

 

[Willard]

Because it's a stronger chain made for larger saws and harvesters. A .063 drive link is considerably stronger than .050. And they say 063 carries oil better on longer bars

A Oregon field engineer once told me running a .063 chain is a perfect setup as bar's detachable sprocket noses are all .063
Running a .050 or .058 3/8 chain will wobble on a .063 sprocket nose. He said watching the chain cut with a slow motion camera shows a less efficient cutting action causing extra wear .