Duke's saw chain

[davidwyby]

 

[Woodslasher]

How does it hold up to the concrete timber you cut?

 

[davidwyby]

How does it hold up to the concrete timber you cut?

Dunno yet. Couldn’t bear to wreck it, it was cutting so nice

 

[drumbum]

I often dig or shave in with the side of the chain when cleaning out a face. Especially with square which works well for it. IIRC in the beginning of the video he shows the cutter profile straight on and the side cutter is exposed outside of the raker.

Uhmmmm........
If you take a bar and chain and lay it flat down on a plate of glass,.....only the "points" will touch. "Points" being where the top and side plates meet.

In your example in the vid, you can easily see how the side plates angle in,....right?

Do you see a scenario where the side plate touches before the "point" of the cutter?

It's not doing what you envision it doing.

 

[davidwyby]

Uhmmmm........
If you take a bar and chain and lay it flat down on a plate of glass,.....only the "points" will touch. "Points" being where the top and side plates meet.

In you example in the vid, you can easily see how the side plates angle in,....right?

Do you see a scenario where the side plate touches before the "point" of the cutter?

It's not doing what you envision it doing.

…except that I’ve done it. that’s how I clean up my wedges too…with the side of the cutters.

 

[Woodpecker]

…except that I’ve done it. that’s how I clean up my wedges too…with the side of the cutters.

But… but.. butt… in theory . Dontcha just love that. I clean up my face cut all the time with the side of the chain. I also use the side plate of the chain to do lots of different stuff when carving. The side plate cuts the side of the chip out folks. The thickness of the chip is determined by the distance from the depth gauge to the top of the top plate. The length of the chip is determined by the wave pattern of the tooth as it travels along the bar through the cut. That pattern is determined by a lot of different variables including geometry of the cutter, chain drivers, depth gauge shape, wood species, etc. like snowflakes no two chips are alike

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

…except that I’ve done it. that’s how I clean up my wedges too…with the side of the cutters.

Don't listen to this guy, he's got 40 billion YouTube comments telling him he's wrong.

 

[davidwyby]

Don't listen to this guy, he's got 40 billion YouTube comments telling him he's wrong.

I think there were only 8,000.

 

[drumbum]

"The side plate cuts the side of the chip out folks. The thickness of the chip is determined by the distance from the depth gauge to the top of the top plate."


Exactly,....that's what I'm saying

But no ands, ifs or buts......what Doug states in the vid is WRONG, INCORRECT, and BS!

You can take a 7/32 file and clean out the gullet totally perpendicular to the bar,....Way up the side plate.....and it will still CUT.

I drive wedges with the bottom of my saw ALL The FlippIn time! ....so don't tell me It can't be done! EXPERIENCE! lol

Hahahahahahaahahah


....all in fun

 

[Gullet]

clean out the gullet

Please don't drag me into this...

 

[davidwyby]

"The side plate cuts the side of the chip out folks. The thickness of the chip is determined by the distance from the depth gauge to the top of the top plate."


Exactly,....that's what I'm saying

But no ands, ifs or buts......what Doug states in the vid is WRONG, INCORRECT, and BS!

You can take a 7/32 file and clean out the gullet totally perpendicular to the bar,....Way up the side plate.....and it will still CUT.

I drive wedges with the bottom of my saw ALL The FlippIn time! ....so don't tell me It can't be done! EXPERIENCE! lol

Hahahahahahaahahah


....all in fun

I agree with you on gullets. Only time they matter is chip clearance. BBR created a myth that we fight every day.

 

[drumbum]

way up the side plate, to like 40 thou from top plate.......perpendicular......I.E. BLUNT

Hahahahahahahahahah

 

[davidwyby]

It’s pretty obvious with some square grinds that only sharpen the upper part of the tooth that the gullet doesn’t do anything. Some even leave them in and it’s as fast or faster…I suspect because that metal there acts like a rider that keeps the cutter from diving into the side of the kerf.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Gullet Maintenance On Square Chisel Saw | Madsen's Shop

www.madsens1.com

When gullets are allowed to get long, they make it difficult for the sharp cutter to get at the wood. This makes it difficult for the chain to feed. Here is the reason: Every time a cutter tooth is sharpened, it gets shorter. As the tooth becomes shorter, the "set" or the amount the cutter sticks out beyond its chassis is reduced, too. Gullets retain their set and if allowed to get too long, they rub in the cut. also, long gullets impede chip flow.

 

[Squish9]

Years ago when I worked at a shop most of people coming in with sharpening problems had just taken a file and dug in deep. I used to sell them a file o plate.

Somehow 15 years later a guy is getting a lot of views on YouTube telling people to get the gullet. It's crap advice and people naturally tend to dig in deep anyway so I'm not sure who it's helping.

I guess it's easier to sell merch with get the gullet than stuff that says "file height control is critical, form the correct top plate cutting angle"

The Vallorbe hexagonal files have a side width of 1.3mm (50 thou) and they work fine so I don't see the need to go deep. On round chain if your using the right file and getting the correct angle on the top plate they tend to clear out the gullet on their own.

 

[davidwyby]

Re: sharpening/durabilty - in axes, 14-15° is considered racing angles and too delicate for hard wood or work. 18° is min for work, and even then, a steeper micro bevel is added for durability. Usually for work something in the low 20s is used. Axes are made from hardened steel. Saw chain is not hard, it just has a thin layer of chrome, so the steel has to support the chrome. With a low round file, the edge is veeeery thin. Would be interesting to blow some pictures up and measure angles. The cutter is also undercut by the radius of the file. This type of grind in my experience doesn't just dull, it rolls down....in one cut in the nasties. Now...the Xcut, Hexa, Duke's grinds...the flat face means less undercut, and the angle can be tilted up/back to make the edge more supported(wider angle), and also so that the force on the edge is more straight on, or even up/rearward so that the edge doesn't just roll. R&D time...

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Re: sharpening/durabilty - in axes, 14-15° is considered racing angles and too delicate for hard wood or work. 18° is min for work, and even then, a steeper micro bevel is added for durability. Usually for work something in the low 20s is used. Axes are made from hardened steel. Saw chain is not hard, it just has a thin layer of chrome, so the steel has to support the chrome. With a low round file, the edge is veeeery thin. Would be interesting to blow some pictures up and measure angles. The cutter is also undercut by the radius of the file. This type of grind in my experience doesn't just dull, it rolls down....in one cut in the nasties. Now...the Xcut, Hexa, Duke's grinds...the flat face means less undercut, and the angle can be tilted up/back to make the edge more supported(wider angle), and also so that the force on the edge is more straight on, or even up/rearward so that the edge doesn't just roll. R&D time...

Thanks for the axe information, racing axe angles and such are new to me.

Regarding chain, the chrome and nickle is in the mix, not on the surface. Chrome and nickle give it hardness and makes it more abrasion resistant which is why STIHL chain stays sharp longer and is harder to sharpen. It also makes the cutters more brittle, so using a smaller file to create a thinner cutting edge causes the top of the cutter to fracture and chip out.

 

[jakethesnake]

The top of the side plate. That part will cut and you can clean *s-word up with them.
Below a certain point on that terrible drawing
That part won’t ever contact wood. So yes you can carve and clean up ugly face cuts. With the side. It’s just that very small portion that makes contact on the side.

 

[jakethesnake]

Also for the hell of it. The old man who started walker saw shop. He was into fast chains. He said he left some gullet for 2 3 sharpening. The step in square chain. It was slightly faster in racing. I personally keep my fillets pretty cleaned up. I don’t race stuff and don’t care about timed cuts. Just read plenty about it. I just round file my

 

[Squish9]

.Now...the Xcut, Hexa, Duke's grinds...the flat face means less undercut, and the angle can be tilted up/back to make the edge more supported(wider angle), and also so that the force on the edge is more straight on, or even up/rearward so that the edge doesn't just roll. R&D time...

Do you have any luck with the out the box C83 / c85?

I'm cutting the same stuff in Australia and I hate the factory grind. 3 or 4 cuts into dry wood and that beak is all smashed up. It reacts the same as square that's been filed low, cuts really fast in green wood but fails quickly in anything dry.

So much of the cutter needs to be removed to reshape it that it's just a waste of money buying it for me. I have tried and twice now and gave up.

Hexa has been ok but not enough of an improvement to move away from what's worked for me in the past.