Chainsaw grinder questions, tips, tricks, and pics!!!!

[Philbert]

PART II - HEAT

The biggest problem that I have heard of with over heating chains is 'grinder hardening' - the metal in the larger body of the cutter is able to absorb some heat, but the thin, sharpened edges can't. They heat up and cool much more quickly ('air quenched'), making these edges very hard. This is similar to the hardened teeth on inexpensive handsaws sold at hardware stores and home centers - hard, but too hard to sharpen with a file.

Same with saw chains: if they are 'grinder hardened' a file will slip over them like a knife on buttered glass. But usually you can carefully grind through / past this layer, allowing the cutter to be filed again. To heat the entire cutter enough, and allow it to cool slowly enough to soften ('anneal') steel is less likely:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

PART III - GRIND RIGHT

Bear in mind that Oregon, who basically invented modern saw chain 70 years ago, and who is the largest saw chain manufacturer in the world also sells and promotes chain grinders. STIHL (second largest chain manufacturer?) specifically recommends grinding chains after every few hand file sharpening to even things up.

Combined, these guys have spent millions (yes, with 6 zeros) of hours on chain design, engineering, maintenance, research, etc. Have to trust them somewhat.

Philbert's guidelines:

1. Clean the chain - especially if covered in gunk. A clean chain is a happy chain: lets the oil reach the rivets; lets me inspect the chain for damage; keeps that junk out of my grinder wheels. Not necessary if relatively clean. More important if sharpening someone else's chain, where you don't know how / where it has been used.

2. Dress the wheels frequently. Different grinder wheels use different types and sizes of abrasive (like sandpaper). Like sandpaper, this abrasive gets dull and stops cutting, resulting in friction, and heat. Dressing not only shapes the wheels but exposes fresh abrasive material. I lightly dress once per loop, or whenever things slow down.

3. Take lots of light taps (for old Boy Scouts who learned Morse code - all 'dots'; no 'dashes'). It is not a chop / cut-off saw. The diameter and speed of the wheel also affect how long you can hold it to the chain. I suggest that new users take some scrap chain and intentionally over-heat it, then work backwards to see long they can maintain contact without 'burning' a cutter.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

PART IV - IT'S AMERICA - YOU CHOOSE!

If someone prefers to file; if they feel that they have more control filing; if they believe that they get a better edge filing; if they don't want to spend $300 for a quality grinder; etc.; I am not offended. I don't sell files or grinders.

Some guys like to use a grinder only after hitting a rock to remove a lot of material, then 'finish off' with a file. Some guys like to 'even things out' with a grinder if the right and left cutters are different lengths, or at different angles, from casual filing.

I touch up with a file in the field (separate thread: 'file as you grind; grind as you file'). But when I get a box full of chains from one of the disaster / storm clean up groups I volunteer with, they go on a grinder to send them back as uniform and consistent as I can make them.

Philbert

 

[Dolmar Junkie]

PART IV - IT'S AMERICA - YOU CHOOSE!

If someone prefers to file; if they feel that they have more control filing; if they believe that they get a better edge filing; if they don't want to spend $300 for a quality grinder; etc.; I am not offended. I don't sell files or grinders.

Some guys like to use a grinder only after hitting a rock to remove a lot of material, then 'finish off' with a file. Some guys like to 'even things out' with a grinder if the right and left cutters are different lengths, or at different angles, from casual filing.

I touch up with a file in the field (separate thread: 'file as you grind; grind as you file'). But when I get a box full of chains from one of the disaster / storm clean up groups I volunteer with, they go on a grinder to send them back as uniform and consistent as I can make them.

Philbert

Philbert I have to say that I thoroughly enjoy all of your post generally very poignant and even educational, especially this 4 part series, Mild steel variances and how and when to file in America. Keep em coming..... Matt

 

[Icepick69]

Well well well,
For a weekend warrior. That's pretty impressive.

 

[Dolmar Junkie]

PART IV - IT'S AMERICA - YOU CHOOSE!

If someone prefers to file; if they feel that they have more control filing; if they believe that they get a better edge filing; if they don't want to spend $300 for a quality grinder; etc.; I am not offended. I don't sell files or grinders.

Some guys like to use a grinder only after hitting a rock to remove a lot of material, then 'finish off' with a file. Some guys like to 'even things out' with a grinder if the right and left cutters are different lengths, or at different angles, from casual filing.

I touch up with a file in the field (separate thread: 'file as you grind; grind as you file'). But when I get a box full of chains from one of the disaster / storm clean up groups I volunteer with, they go on a grinder to send them back as uniform and consistent as I can make them.

Philbert

Philbert another thing I was curious about is the disaster response and clean up folks you were referring to,is that local to you or a regional group. I ask because for about a week I have thought about starting a thread on locating or starting one. I generally try to respond to any tornado or wild fire in my neck of the woods. If close enough I can almost always beat the local responders to the scene. I have found if you act like your supposed to be there it's fairly easy to even get through road blocks! I like to find a local responding deputy and put myself on his bumper (kind of risky doing 70-90mph through a rural area, but I drive a 3/4 ton black Suburban w/tinted windows and also have wig wags on my lights probably not legal for me to have but) I have on multiple occasions had trails cut through the roads that the first responders use, much to their chagrin. But I do enjoy being able to make a difference. I thought about local volunteer fire and rescue but to many constraints/regulations and very limited area of operation. If you have any thoughts or contacts they would be appreciated ....

 

[Dolmar Junkie]

Well well well,
For a weekend warrior. That's pretty impressive.

I concur, he seems to pull this stuff out of his hat on a regular basis!
Must stay up at night studying for the test.....

 

[Philbert]

I concur, he seems to pull this stuff out of his hat .....

(Or somewhere else . . . )

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Philbert another thing I was curious about is the disaster response and clean up folks you were referring to, . . . I ask because for about a week I have thought about starting a thread on locating or starting one....

That should be it's own thread. I know that there have been some over on A.S., but it is a very different topic than grinders.

http://opeforum.com/threads/storm-damage-clean-up-volunteering.7625/

Philbert

 

[Dolmar Junkie]

(Or somewhere else . . . )

Philbert

Pics not required....

 

[Dolmar Junkie]

That should be it's own thread. I know that there have been some over on A.S., but it is a very different topic than grinders.

http://opeforum.com/threads/storm-damage-clean-up-volunteering.7625/

Philbert

I agree,sorry for runaway! Severe ADHD....

 

[Khntr85]

Well @Philbert a few beat me to it, as I have been busy.......

Please let me say, guys philbert deserves OPE contributor of the year, seriously, hands down....

I mean seriously this guys helps greenhorns and seasoned vets, All the time...

Philbert, I dont know you personally, but once agian thank you so much for your great, educational post...this info helps people that only visit these sites and never reply, so who knows how many people benefit from great post like this!!!!

 

[Khntr85]

Oh and my take on the temper issue....I have had burnt cutters from customers, that I have just bumped with the grinder wheel to clean up, and they seem be able to be hand filed just fine...

I think a lot of this temper talk is just people listening to a guy that has used a grinder like a chop saw.....

I know for a fact that I hand file chains that I grind atleast 3-5 times a week and I never run into anything I would called "tempered" cutters!!!!

 

[AVB]

Oh and my take on the temper issue....I have had burnt cutters from customers, that I have just bumped with the grinder wheel to clean up, and they seem be able to be hand filed just fine...

I think a lot of this temper talk is just people listening to a guy that has used a grinder like a chop saw.....

I know for a fact that I hand file chains that I grind atleast 3-5 times a week and I never run into anything I would called "tempered" cutters!!!!

Well I have twice ran into machine sharpen chains that I couldn't sharpen by hand since 2009. Just got through with a Mac 610 and I gave up after dulling 4 files on 8 cutters. I finally got one of those HF grinders. It manage to sharpen the chain without problems.

I compare the sharping by the grinder and hand sharping. I still prefer hand sharping to the grinder but heck I have been hand sharping for 40 yrs so it is hard habit to break.

 

[Khntr85]

Well I have twice ran into machine sharpen chains that I couldn't sharpen by hand since 2009. Just got through with a Mac 610 and I gave up after dulling 4 files on 8 cutters. I finally got one of those HF grinders. It manage to sharpen the chain without problems.

I compare the sharping by the grinder and hand sharping. I still prefer hand sharping to the grinder but heck I have been hand sharping for 40 yrs so it is hard habit to break.

It's hard telling what those chains were "sharpened" with....could have been the guy on you tube with an angle grinder lol...

I have ran Into factory Stihl chains that were hard to hand file....I never have an issue hand filing a chain I have ground....

You may have got a chain ground by a ham fisted fella that can't eat with a fork and knife.....

 

[treevet]

Show some pictures

How do a guy get email notification of posts? I signed up for it...Oh well.

Anyhow..I posted a pict of my grinder on the previous page. I know you don't want to see a pict of rakers lol.

 

[Philbert]

How do a guy get email notification of posts? I signed up for it...

When you sign up to watch a thread you have an option to get email reminders:

From user comments, it does not always work.

Philbert

 

[Icepick69]

How do a guy get email notification of posts? I signed up for it...Oh well.

Anyhow..I posted a pict of my grinder on the previous page. I know you don't want to see a pict of rakers lol.

Really like your picture. How can I get that hat? I have high honors for you, and thank you

 

[Sierrawoodsman]

Speaking of lights...I put an LED bulb in my 511. I really like the white light.

I really like the LED light as well. I put one on my R2. Much better than the original. Now I'll see if I can get one for the Oregon. The one it came with is about worthless.

 

[Khntr85]

Ok guys I was gutting the baffle out of my 461 and doing a muf mod the other day....I ground my 25" RM chain while I was at it.....

After I ground the chain I decided to hand file one cutter, just to see how close I am keeping my grinding and filling profiles the same.....

I will post one picture of each cutter, can you guys tell which was hand filed and which was ground....

We can call the first picture A and the second picture B.....

Picture-A


Picture -B