Cannon bar tip failure

[SawNut]

Bought a new 50" .404 Cannon Superbar for milling, thinking it was worth the additional expense over a GB or a Stihl. Got a few tanks in, and the sprocket tip locked up. The ends were splayed a bit, and I've seen that mentioned before. Drilled out the rivets and found missing rollers and galled races. The thing looks like Chinese junk to me. Inner race started to mushroom in front. In all of my years of cutting wood, I've never experienced a sprocket failure like this with any brand name bar. The saw was pouring out bar oil, but I never greased the tip. I never grease them anymore. It did have grease in it when new, as you could feel the drag by hand. Not sure what to think here. I will admit, the chain was a bit chattery, and I'm not totally sure why, but I didn't think it was excessive enough to cause any damage. Chain tension was also correct. Set it with the links just lightly touching the bottom of the bar. You could easily turn the chain by hand, and it would coast down slowly after revving the saw. Rest of the bar and chain look good. This was my first time milling with .404 chain. It is RS full comp. I did grind it back to about 22* for the first few tanks, and didn't touch the depth gauges. I normally like 10-15* on my milling chain, but I do normally use RM semi chisel. Local dealer didn't have a roll of .404 RM, so I took this.

As for a replacement, I see it looks like Oregon makes tips to fit, along with Woodland Pro, and obviously Cannon. Woodland is $15 and Cannon is $45ish.

 

[SawAddictedFarmer]

Bought a new 50" .404 Cannon Superbar for milling, thinking it was worth the additional expense over a GB or a Stihl. Got a few tanks in, and the sprocket tip locked up. The ends were splayed a bit, and I've seen that mentioned before. Drilled out the rivets and found missing rollers and galled races. The thing looks like Chinese junk to me. Inner race started to mushroom in front. In all of my years of cutting wood, I've never experienced a sprocket failure like this with any brand name bar. The saw was pouring out bar oil, but I never greased the tip. I never grease them anymore. It did have grease in it when new, as you could feel the drag by hand. Not sure what to think here. I will admit, the chain was a bit chattery, and I'm not totally sure why, but I didn't think it was excessive enough to cause any damage. Chain tension was also correct. Set it with the links just lightly touching the bottom of the bar. You could easily turn the chain by hand, and it would coast down slowly after revving the saw. Rest of the bar and chain look good. This was my first time milling with .404 chain. It is RS full comp. I did grind it back to about 22* for the first few tanks, and didn't touch the depth gauges. I normally like 10-15* on my milling chain, but I do normally use RM semi chisel. Local dealer didn't have a roll of .404 RM, so I took this.

As for a replacement, I see it looks like Oregon makes tips to fit, along with Woodland Pro, and obviously Cannon. Woodland is $15 and Cannon is $45ish.

Personally I'd call Cannon directly and give them a chance to make this right. Telephones were invented for a reason.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

50” Full comp .404 is nuts, IMO. Why didn’t you use skip?

Does Cannon suggest greasing their tips?

I have a 36 and a 50…guess I should find out

 

[dangerousatom]

Id call Cannon also;
If I were a manufacture Id prefer a review were its stated "they stood behind their product & made it right" even if there was a random defect or failure. A company's actions after the sale is just as important to many as the products they make.
.
.

 

[Sloughfoot]

Was the tip dry inside?

 

[LS50713]

I always used ripping chain from madsens and had good luck with it. Then wi bought a band mill.

 

[Bill G]

Personally I'd call Cannon directly and give them a chance to make this right. Telephones were invented for a reason.

That is damn right but few know how to use them

 

[Sloughfoot]

Was told my camera had a telephone in it.

 

[SawNut]

50” Full comp .404 is nuts, IMO. Why didn’t you use skip?

Does Cannon suggest greasing their tips?

I have a 36 and a 50…guess I should find out

Why is it nuts? The saw had no trouble pulling full comp. What would skip have done for me here? Keep in mind, this was day 1 of milling with a totally new setup. New powerhead, longer bar than I've milled with, and untested by me, .404 chain. I had to start somewhere, and nobody has .404 skip on a roll around here. I don't know what Cannon says about greasing tips, but I will find out when I eventually speak with them.

Was the tip dry inside?

It was more dry than I'd have expected, but it was full of ground up bearing material, so its hard to say what happened first. The inner "race" is mushroomed, so I'd say the metal was on the soft side. No evidence of it getting hot. No blueing or burned paint. Definitely wasn't smoking.

That is damn right but few know how to use them

Just because I didn't call Cannon before I posted here, doesn't mean I can't use a telephone. I'm old enough to have grown up on rotary dial phones. Really, my first concern was getting a new tip on the way ASAP, so I can finish milling, and wanted to know if anyone had used any tips other than a genuine Cannon. I don't really care about a $40 part, as much as I care about getting this log finished, and out of my buddy's driveway.

 

[Sloughfoot]

Be a surprise if Cannon doesn't get a free replacement to you asap. Yours is probably one of a bad batch.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

No judgements here. Im glad yer ok. I understand how shocking it is milling with that much power when something grenades right in close proximity of an area of the body unprotected by chaps.

Please make sure that the chain catch is in perfect shape before you go at er again.

Welcome to the brotherhood of muscle saw milling and congrats on that HO oiler upgrade!

Slowly brake in the next tip with some gentle cutting before you go full steam milling. Be mindful of where you clamp the frame. Make certain no clamping force is on the sprocket nose. Check for free play after clamping down the mill frame.

I use lucas red n tacky on the milling nose sprockets. Every time I sharpen.

 

[SawNut]

Well, I called Cannon and they admitted to having a bad batch of tips. They're going to be sending me a new one. That's as good as anyone could ask for. Weather isn't looking good for this weekend, but hopefully I'll have it in hand by the next weekend, and can give it a try. Probably should have called them first, but my intent wasn't really to complain about them, but rather see if anyone else had seen this before. I was just really surprised to see a failure like that.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Do the cannon bars still just take yer common 1 rivet oregon nose?

If so, there's quite a few new old stock .404 ones in ebay right now. Bout $15-$18 a piece

 

[bwalker]

Bought a new 50" .404 Cannon Superbar for milling, thinking it was worth the additional expense over a GB or a Stihl. Got a few tanks in, and the sprocket tip locked up. The ends were splayed a bit, and I've seen that mentioned before. Drilled out the rivets and found missing rollers and galled races. The thing looks like Chinese junk to me. Inner race started to mushroom in front. In all of my years of cutting wood, I've never experienced a sprocket failure like this with any brand name bar. The saw was pouring out bar oil, but I never greased the tip. I never grease them anymore. It did have grease in it when new, as you could feel the drag by hand. Not sure what to think here. I will admit, the chain was a bit chattery, and I'm not totally sure why, but I didn't think it was excessive enough to cause any damage. Chain tension was also correct. Set it with the links just lightly touching the bottom of the bar. You could easily turn the chain by hand, and it would coast down slowly after revving the saw. Rest of the bar and chain look good. This was my first time milling with .404 chain. It is RS full comp. I did grind it back to about 22* for the first few tanks, and didn't touch the depth gauges. I normally like 10-15* on my milling chain, but I do normally use RM semi chisel. Local dealer didn't have a roll of .404 RM, so I took this.

As for a replacement, I see it looks like Oregon makes tips to fit, along with Woodland Pro, and obviously Cannon. Woodland is $15 and Cannon is $45ish.

I believe that Cannon uses Oregon tips.

I've lost a few over the years when logging in deep snow. It happens.
In hour case something tells me you are dealing with a manufacturing defect of some sort.

 

[bwalker]

Do the cannon bars still just take yer common 1 rivet oregon nose?

If so, there's quite a few new old stock .404 ones in ebay right now. Bout $15-$18 a piece

They do.