Bad cylinder on a brand new 346XP, what's the best thing to do?

[Hinerman]

Hi guys,

A few days ago I removed the cylinder of my brand new ported 346xp. I bought this saw a few years ago, and I was keeping it for later. Saw was never started.

And no, I didn't remove the cylinder to look at the builder's work, I did it to replace the original intake boot with a 357 one.

Here's the overview,

View attachment 83656
As you can say, it doesn't look nice. I took a closer look,

View attachment 83651

And here's the most scary part, there's notches between the uppers, on both sides. Looks like it will catch a ring:

View attachment 83652

The intake is barely touched, but the shiny part is the worst, it just looks like it was done with a hammer and a chisel:

View attachment 83657

And the exhaust is just done the same way, extremely rough and irregular :

View attachment 83650

I paid $900 for this saw, I can't say how bitter I am. This saw was supposed to be my "precious", and right now, I'm just glad I didn't start it first.

I didn't make this thread to stir crap on the builder, he don't post here and I didn't see on AS for a long time, and I don't think he port saws anymore. Plus it's a guy I usually appreciate, I know he had some health issues when he built this saw (it's not an excuse, I know), but I don't want to start a fight, so please, don't ask more about him.

I made this thread to get your advices, I honestly don't know what to do. At firt, I was thinking to ask another builder to fix this, but with these notches between the uppers I'm afraid this cylinder is just a piece of garbage. But I'm a newbie at porting, so I don't know, maybe it's just fine to run it like this?

So here's the options:

-Running the saw with this cylinder, hopefully it will be ok...
-Trying to clean this mess by myself with a few carbide burrs
-Sending the cylinder to someone else to have it fixed if this still can be saved
-Buying a new cylinder and have it ported by someone else (IMHO the best option, I really want to make a great runner with this saw).

I won't send it back to the original builder, it's too hard to communicate with him and I don't want to start a fight about this.

So what would you do?

I have one of these also. IIRC he had yours and mine at the exact same time. I have not torn mine down, nor have I used it a ton (less than 10 tanks), but it runs extremely well. It is a work saw, but I have done fair at some races with stock carb, intake, choke intact, and primer bulb; I just remove the air filter and turn it up a notch or 2. I will have it checked out before I do anymore with it.

I remember him telling me his health issues involved the function of his hands and fingers, which is why it was taking him so long to get work completed.

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

I have one of these also. IIRC he had yours and mine at the exact same time. I have not torn mine down, nor have I used it a ton (less than 10 tanks), but it runs extremely well. It is a work saw, but I have done fair at some races with stock carb, intake, choke intact, and primer bulb; I just remove the air filter and turn it up a notch or 2. I will have it checked out before I do anymore with it.

I remember him telling me his health issues involved the function of his hands and fingers, which is why it was taking him so long to get work completed.

I hope yours is OK.

 

[awol]

I have one of these also. IIRC he had yours and mine at the exact same time. I have not torn mine down, nor have I used it a ton (less than 10 tanks), but it runs extremely well. It is a work saw, but I have done fair at some races with stock carb, intake, choke intact, and primer bulb; I just remove the air filter and turn it up a notch or 2. I will have it checked out before I do anymore with it.

I remember him telling me his health issues involved the function of his hands and fingers, which is why it was taking him so long to get work completed.

Hey Thomas, if you want yours to run like Matts and Bobs, I'd be willing to "check it out"!!

 

[TreeLife]

Randy is a good man, I'm also not certain he consumes.

 

[sunfish]

Hey Thomas, if you want yours to run like Matts and Bobs, I'd be willing to "check it out"!!

Hey Alan, I need to come visit, just been too busy here.

 

[Mastermind]

That's really kind of you Randy, I really appreciate. Too bad I can't send you some of my homemade beers, you deserve at least a full case of them.

Thanks........but I don't drink alcohol in any form.

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

Thanks........but I don't drink alcohol in any form.

I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Mastermind]

I wasn't aware of that.

No worries.

I'm one of those people that used to drink way too much........so I gave it up completely.

 

[thomas1]

No worries.

I'm one of those people that used to drink way too much........so I gave it up completely.

Did you used to work out your legs way too much, too?

 

[Hinerman]

Hey Thomas, if you want yours to run like Matts and Bobs, I'd be willing to "check it out"!!

Let's take the top end off at Ft. Scott and have a look. If it has problems, I will buy a new top end and you can have at it. One condition, it has to run better than Matt's.

 

[Armbru84]

That is quite the statement my friend. I agree that the 6100s are stronger in the cut though. I don't like the way they handle as well.

I figured I'd have a huge number of 6100s to build, but they have yet to take off like the 562 has.

I am a huge fan of my 6100. It's one I don't plan to part with.

 

[Mattyo]

There is.

Health......

As age and injury piles up on us........we lose motor skill. Pretty simply, it was a little past time for him to hang up the tools.

This bears repeating. Probably the best description of "professional" in any profession, is a person who knows when to hold em, and when to fold em. This is the hardest thing to learn as a newb... because you just want to do everything. By the time ya get seasoned, ya get good at it....hopefully. When its time, ethically morally etc.... ya hang it up. Just from the photos, those were 2 different people. "past time for him to hang up" is generous Randy.

Odd thing to me is... I think it'd take MORE skill to use a grinding disc to do those transfers, than a right angle handpiece.

I'm always trying to be more professional, and hopefully, posts like this encourage everyone else to do the same.

carry on gents.

btw... Brad does a hell of a job grinding... I know... cause I've taken apart his saw

 

[thomas1]

I can picture you sitting around waiting for just the right moment to kick Brad in the balls. lol

Score one for T1 !!!!!!!

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Mastermind]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Don't make me start rocking your big ass !!!!!

LOL

 

[thomas1]

Don't make me start rocking your big ass !!!!!

LOL

Follow your heart.

 

[Wolverine]

nothing good ever came outta PA any way..

Please keep it above the belt sir...

his saws have had a reputation for hauling the mail and Ive never heard much about failures? Seems odd

I've been running the snot out of one of his port jobs for quite a few years heating my family with around 6 cord per season. Dead reliable and right around 30-35% gains. I couldn't be happier.
I've never cracked it open because I haven't needed to. Just periodical checks behind the muff.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Please keep it above the belt sir...


I've been running the snot out of one of his port jobs for quite a few years heating my family with around 6 cord per season. Dead reliable and right around 30-35% gains. I couldn't be happier.
I've never cracked it open because I haven't needed to. Just periodical checks behind the muff.

Awesome testimony. Guess health issues has gotten the ole feller

 

[drf256]

I had a jug of this builders come across my bench. I wasn't impressed by the grinding one bit.

But this was before having had any experience grinding myself.

I've been in other builder's saws that looked sloppy also. But they ran like hell...

Pretty ain't fast or reliable. I agree that one expects a certain level of attention and time given to a port job when it's paid for. But if the saw runs great and lasts, can anyone really judge what the porter has done to make it happen?

JMS was just the opposite. Some of the nicest ports I've ever laid eyes on, but sloppy every single other place.

This post is in no way meant to ding the OP or to give a nod to the sloppy work done on this 346 jug. I'm just bringing up a point.

Who is the end user to decide what the job should like inside if a saw is dependable and runs great?

You get what you pay for, which is experience.

Some builders will turn down certain models because the amount of work doesn't justify the price. If a certain model takes three times the work, it averages out with the model that takes next to nothing.

I was in a certain husky once. There was minimal port work done. The uppers looked choppy. I ran that saw against mine, with a polished jug that looked awesome, and it beat mine. Hands down. You woulda picked my jug if they were both for sale, but you woulda picked wrong. I had a new respect for the porter at that point. He knew what worked and what didn't on this model. He knew what was a waste of time and what wasn't.

I guess my point is that the end result is what you pay for. The destination is what's paid for, not the journey. However, I agree that the jug the OP is presenting has a high likelyhood of an early failure and poor performance.

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

I am pretty sure I still have the 1st cylinder he built me, I will take a few pics after work.

I know a lot of grinding don't always make a strong saw, and a rough grinding won't always make a poor running saw, but the first one was far from perfect, it was fine and the saw was really strong. But it failed, a whole part of the cylinder broke in the middle of the lowers. Another member told me this could be because of the poor grinding, I don't know if it's true, but for me, it wasn't a big deal, it was my 1st ported saw and she last me a good year or more.

Then, I replaced the jug by a new one ported by Brad. And I can't tell you how impressed I was by the quality of his work. Everything was smooth and shiny.

Of course, the saw was not MUCH stronger... But it was.

And this cylinder has today at least twice more running time and it is still perfect.

2 weeks ago the piston ring pin broke and destroyed the piston, but the cylinder should be salvageable and I will rebuild it.

So when I saw the quality of the porting job on this saw, I knew from my own experience it won't make the saw as good as the 1st one, and I know it won't be reliable.

Glad I see it before it failed, the saw is brand new and a good 346 case became hard to find.

 

[drf256]

Guillaume,

Hard to put into words what I wanted to say. There are extremes that exist, for certain.

All saws will fail, like any other tool. Then the blame game starts.

When it's opened up, and shoddy work was performed, where will the blame fall?

I personally wouldn't want my worked viewed and frowned upon ever. That goes for saws or anything else.

The jug you posted looks like crap. That would never leave my shop, period.

I'm simply stating a general axiom that pretty ain't alway fast and ugly ain't always bad.