200T Video & Seal Thread

[Mattyo]

Huskihl, the weight issue I can buy. Space maybe. Just not that they are lower friction.

Al, again, see my vid. no BFH used they still broke w/ a SMALL hammer and light tap and a deep socket. They just don't want to line up right.

 

[angelo c]

So if I understand this thread correctly, nobody has the correct OEM tooling to apply the seals, most struggle with applying them, then seek alternative means of reapplying ?

Matt, there are a lot of vids...where and which one is the "seal installing" one ? If ya don't mind.

Does anyone have "long term " use reporting on an AM seal in a real world 200t environment. (Not sitting on a shelf for 3 years ).

 

[Definitive Dave]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...er-set-11298932400-11298934600-/221756612966?


easy peasy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS200T-020T-Chainsaw-OEM-Gasket-Set-1129-007-1050-new-/221604905774?


cant keep either item in stock for more than a couple of days, no matter how many I order

 

[Mattyo]

Here is the part 5 build video w/ seals installed ...

here is my discussion of the difference in seals

I can say that one of the saws I did had the original seals. I did not change them out. I pressure tested them, and they were fine. I'm sure that saw had seen years of use. am seals.... dunno...we'll find out. but, why would they be any different in longevity on this saw vs say, a husky 262xp. same design for seals, just smaller

 

[Mattyo]

nice links Dave. personally, I wouldn't buy the installer, but that gasket kit is nice value. my only advice on that is to buy extra seals. if you buggar one, your gonna be waiting a while on another

 

[Mastermind]

To be quite honest I don't remember if I used a deep socket,piston wrist pin or bored out a piece of aluminum round stock to drive those seals in the pockets .One thing's for certain I didn't thump them in with a 4 pound ball peen ,BFH so to speak .--tain't what you do 'tis how you do it .

As my friend Hedgerow says. "It's the Indian, not the arrow".....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...er-set-11298932400-11298934600-/221756612966?


easy peasy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS200T-020T-Chainsaw-OEM-Gasket-Set-1129-007-1050-new-/221604905774?


cant keep either item in stock for more than a couple of days, no matter how many I order

I need a few of those gasket sets, and a seal installer when you get them back in stock. Ain't nothing like having the right tool for the job.

 

[Definitive Dave]

Install 2 seals in less than a minute with no fuss, muss or hassle?
For a guy fixing one saw for himself I can see it not seeming worthwhile to buy the tools, the more saws I mess with the more I appreciate the specialty tools plus I am a tool nerd of the highest order
If you use OEM seals that cost a lot more than the AM seals I could really see spending 40 odd bucks on a tool to fix the most common problem with a 400 dollar saw.
The reason sockets suck for seals is that the surface where the driver and seal meet doesn't match exactly and the pressure isn't even and smooth on the entire area.

Heck with all the right tools removing and installing seals can be done a lot faster than the pressure vacuum check that lets you know they need replaced
Dave

 

[Definitive Dave]

couldn't help myself

http://opeforum.com/threads/stih-chainsaws-oil-seal-installer-cheatsheet.1299/

 

[angelo c]

"The reason sockets suck for seals is that the surface where the driver and seal meet doesn't match exactly and the pressure isn't even and smooth on the entire area."

ding
ding
ding.

we have a winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Why are you so concerned about exactly what the seal is made from?

I'm more interested in learning how to install it.....

Cause he is in a pissing contest with me and wants to try to prove me wrong when I told him they were Bakelite that's why! I told him they were Bakelite and he went off on a tangent !

 

[Mattyo]

so Lone Wolf, answer the question, what part of that seal is bakelite. If you know the answer, please share. But the whole thing is not bakelite. There are two different materials there

 

[Mattyo]

another reason why deep socket suck is the stupid thing never aligns right... and a deep socket don't help that.

 

[Mattyo]

Cause he is in a pissing contest with me and wants to try top prove me wrong when I told him they were Bakelite that's why! I told him they were Bakelite and he went off on a tangent !

its not about a pissing contest, its about learning. if you have the answer, please share, and please be specific. if you have a reference as well that'd be awesome. ie, is there a paper somewhere that actually explains what material is used where on this seal?

if the actual material used against the crankshaft is bakelite, then I will go eat humble pie... no worries on that.

 

[Mattyo]

oh, and for the record. ...I got that pile of stuff from the bay...and yes....I paid too much

at least it'll allow me to make a vid on the seals...gotta crack these cases anyhow

 

[Lone Wolf]

oh, and for the record. ...I got that pile of stuff from the bay...and yes....I paid too much

at least it'll allow me to make a vid on the seals...gotta crack these cases anyhow

Send to an independent laboratory for a scientific examination of the material and make video of what you find! What are you hoping do with this prove me wrong? Why you going on and on about it ? They look to be Bakelite!

 

[Mattyo]

LW, I think you have this backwards somehow. It is my understanding that there are few people on either here or AS that know more than you about 200t's. So if anyone knows about 200t seals, its probably you, hence my questioning.

Saying that they are bakelite is akin to saying the am seals are metal. yes, some part of the am seals is metal, but there are other materials there. So, the question remains, what IS the material that makes the seal on the bakelite seals? If you don't know the answer to the question, then just say so. Thats fine. But then I need you to understand my confusion when you ask to compare properties of nitrile rubber vs bakelite. It is relatively easy to get to the conclusion that nitrile rubber IS the material for the AM seals that ACTUALLY touches the crankshaft. But, nobody around here KNOWS what the material is for the oem seals that is the flexy stuff that makes the seal? to me that is odd. back to the comparison. you asked me to compare the thermal properties of nitrile rubber vs bakelite. I don't think this is a fair comparison, UNLESS bakelite IS the material that does the sealing....which for some reason I still can't wrap my head around. Bakelite technically isn't flexible, so why would they engineer such a product to use as a seal when they actually need something flexible to provide a seal? Glass isn't flexible either, yet it has excellent heat resistance. Doesn't make sense to use that as a seal.... so what material actually makes the seal?

I'm lost, and I have come to you for information and with a conundrum and this is somehow construed as an attack. Perhaps I am asking the questions wrong? I don't know. If I'm off my rocker anyone else feel free to chime in here. Maybe I've ask a question improperly?

 

[Lone Wolf]

LW, I think you have this backwards somehow. It is my understanding that there are few people on either here or AS that know more than you about 200t's. So if anyone knows about 200t seals, its probably you, hence my questioning.

Saying that they are bakelite is akin to saying the am seals are metal. yes, some part of the am seals is metal, but there are other materials there. So, the question remains, what IS the material that makes the seal on the bakelite seals? If you don't know the answer to the question, then just say so. Thats fine. But then I need you to understand my confusion when you ask to compare properties of nitrile rubber vs bakelite. It is relatively easy to get to the conclusion that nitrile rubber IS the material for the AM seals that ACTUALLY touches the crankshaft. But, nobody around here KNOWS what the material is for the oem seals that is the flexy stuff that makes the seal? to me that is odd. back to the comparison. you asked me to compare the thermal properties of nitrile rubber vs bakelite. I don't think this is a fair comparison, UNLESS bakelite IS the material that does the sealing....which for some reason I still can't wrap my head around. Bakelite technically isn't flexible, so why would they engineer such a product to use as a seal when they actually need something flexible to provide a seal? Glass isn't flexible either, yet it has excellent heat resistance. Doesn't make sense to use that as a seal.... so what material actually makes the seal?

I'm lost, and I have come to you for information and with a conundrum and this is somehow construed as an attack. Perhaps I am asking the questions wrong? I don't know. If I'm off my rocker anyone else feel free to chime in here. Maybe I've ask a question improperly?

This seems to be a Stihl proprietary guarded secret. I was under the impression they were Bakelite. I an not an engineer nor do I have privy to everything they do. The reasons for this cant be more than what were stated already. Al Smith and Randy already said they believe it was made for less friction. I said heat properties! I got to say both. Why are you so sure Bakelite cant be used to seal because Wikipedia said it is not flexible?

 

[Mattyo]

Now we are closer to the right track.

I believe that Wikipedia is right...bakelite is not flexible....and in the entire article it doesn't mention bakelite as being used for an oil seal.

What I don't know is which part of the seal is bakelite....the seal or the frame of the seal. I suspect it is the frame and just the frame....

I'm not an engineer either. ..just a dentist

 

[Al Smith]

Due to the fact this thread might be endless I looked at some of those seal drivers sold on flea bay which I might add are nothing that even resemble rocket science or 49 dollars .All they are is cored out piece of metal sized for the shaft and seal which anybody who can't drive a deep socket straight could make on a lathe in ten minutes .Of course then it arises the fact only about ten percent of us own lathes and know how to use them .

Of course you have to remember there are a zillon sizes and shapes of deep sockets other than the generic Craftsman tools sold at Sears .I probably have a 100 or more but then I work in an automotive engine assembley plant. It's old hat to me.
What did catch my eye were the "bullets", cones that expand the seal lip on saw engines such as certain Husqvarnas where it's real easy to roll the seal lip when installing seals .The crankshaft on some have almost no champfer where the seal rides .I always used rolled shim stock or plastic to preform the same task. Fact the bullet deal is the same way we do it at work on the rear seals on automotive engines which are installed by a robot .

Now answer this ,if a person can't drive a seal straight could they drive a nail straight ? Remember tap.tap ,tap on a seal,thump ,thump thump on a nail .Don't thump your thumb.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Due to the fact this thread might be endless I looked at some of those seal drivers sold on flea bay which I might add are nothing that even resemble rocket science or 49 dollars .All they are is cored out piece of metal sized for the shaft and seal which anybody who can't drive a deep socket straight could make on a lathe in ten minutes .Of course then it arises the fact only about ten percent of us own lathes and know how to use them .

Of course you have to remember there are a zillon sizes and shapes of deep sockets other than the generic Craftsman tools sold at Sears .I probably have a 100 or more but then I work in an automotive engine assembley plant. It's old hat to me.
What did catch my eye were the "bullets", cones that expand the seal lip on saw engines such as certain Husqvarnas where it's real easy to roll the seal lip when installing seals .The crankshaft on some have almost no champfer where the seal rides .I always used rolled shim stock or plastic to preform the same task. Fact the bullet deal is the same way we do it at work on the rear seals on automotive engines which are installed by a robot .

Now answer this ,if a person can't drive a seal straight could they drive a nail straight ? Remember tap.tap ,tap on a seal,thump ,thump thump on a nail .Don't thump your thumb.

Buy the Stihl one Al and then make a bunch of them out of aluminum on a lathe if you could. And sell them of course. Actually I know a couple guys that are nice enough to send you some if you send them back.