Stihl 241c stalls while idling

[FullChisel]

I saw some pics a while back on another thread here on this site of a side by side shot of the new vs the old fuel solenoids and just did go back in and look at them again and the newer white ones DO have another o-ring out there in place of that rib!

Now if I can just get my hands on one!

 

[Larry B]

I had a guy want me to work in a brand new mtronic 261 for bogging down with no power as soon as it touched wood. I told him to take it back to the dealer under warranty. They kept the saw for a month and then said the only problem was a really dull chain. BS i sharpened the chain. The saw runs OK now but i think there are problems all the dealers are hiding. As with any new technology there are growing pains but i think Mtronic has more than Stihl is admitting.

 

[FullChisel]

Mine is bog monster just trying to get it to come up off idle....although am making some headway now that I see this new carb made it start , idle, and run much easier/better. Still dying quite a bit upon throttle chop, but way better than last week.

I pulled the old carb apart again today and did locate where that "undiscovered"orifice comes into the throat of the carb. Is just real hard to spot as the throat is so tiny and where it is placed. There are actually THREE tiny holes. They are all located under that small diameter plug that is glued in right next to where the diaphragm resides. Found them by taking the solenoid out, putting a drop of three in one oil into the solenoid installation hole and then looking down the throat under the scope while then putting some compressed air into the solenoid opening and watching for the oil to come into the throat....So NOW I know those are clear of any obstructions as well.

I am really starting to think the starting and stumbling issues might ALL have to do with the lack of an o-ring on that nose of the first generation solenoid that sits pretty deep in the side of the carb. ESPECIALLY after seeing the picture of the white ones WITH an o-ring. My dealer said Stihl had a reason for NOT selling them to 241 owners, but did not elaborate on that. I STILL do not get that as I believe all the 241, 441, and 661's came stock with these same solenoids? I am thinking like others have mentioned in another thread here that they want to get rid of existing (junk stock) before selling ones that work....which is pretty lame considering they are around 40 bucks a pop.

The hard plastic sealed and worked well for two years, but once the vibration gets to that plastic it is going to leak. Also the stock ones are probably pushed in real nice and square on an assembly line, which might help explain why they most all worked well. Under a scope you can also see where that little thin boss or web gets folded over as it is installed, I checked the hole it fits into and it is tapered right where that little tab sits in it. It is designed to fold that little boss over as a seal as the solenoid pushes in..... but it is not a uniform "fold" all the way around. A rubber o-ring would definitely give a better, more uniform, and longer lasting seal.

Not enough thickness or room to make a new o-ring groove on these old solenoids so I am going to try to re-install this old carb as I used some "magic" motorcycle gasket material carefully applied on the nose of this solenoid when I re-installed it. Should tell me if that is leaking although not certain how long this "patch" will work for. At this point I just want to find the issue. Sure do not want to have to replace a whole carb every two years, especially as it is starting to look like it could all be solenoid related.

 

[FullChisel]

It is back! Knock on wood it stays that way too! I made a real small adjustment to the metering valve on the NEW carb taking out all the slack between it and the diaphragm (my dealer suggested this adjustment!), went out and tried the new carb again and now it is running like it did for the first two years! No dying issues at all for a full day! Went up to just below 9K in elevation, it was pretty hot out (mid eighties) so am pretty confident the new carb, and that adjustment did the trick.

Am now going to put the old carb back on and try it before I return the carb to my dealer as he is going to warranty that one. As I mentioned in the above post I installed an already "used" solenoid in the old carb with carefully applied gasket sealer around the nose to be certain it seals up real well, as I sure would like to know for sure where the issue lies as having to replace carbs every two years is unacceptable in my opinion.

Will update once I try it out.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I had a guy want me to work in a brand new mtronic 261 for bogging down with no power as soon as it touched wood. I told him to take it back to the dealer under warranty. They kept the saw for a month and then said the only problem was a really dull chain. BS i sharpened the chain. The saw runs OK now but i think there are problems all the dealers are hiding. As with any new technology there are growing pains but i think Mtronic has more than Stihl is admitting.

Same thing happened with a 661C that I worked on last year. The coil was defective, and the saw was only 5 months old. That's what I diagnosed, so he took it back to the dealer. At least they were honest in telling the owner the same thing. BTW, those 661 coils ain't cheap.

 

[FullChisel]

Well one good (?) thing about this fiasco is I can now swap out the carb in five minutes and that includes starting it!

New carb and the original old one (with high quality stay soft gasket sealer applied in a thin strip around the nose of the solenoid) both start right up with one or two pulls, idle fine, acclimate good, accelerate good AND stay running upon throttle chop at my elevation (5K).

I was still having issues with the stock carb dying on throttle chop above 9000 feet while the new carb was having issues coming up off idle at about that same elevation. It IS altitude sickness! Both those symptoms appear to me to be low speed carb issues but I then installed the new control unit and went out again and it appears to have fixed the acceleration and throttle chop issues completely . It ran GREAT all day. With either carb!

It was a cooler day though, and doubtful if we will have any more real hot days to absolutely confirm the fix is in till next Summer now. I am now leaning towards my issue being a combination of the coil/control unit, and solenoid.

I did confirm that an old solenoid can be used again if care is taken to make certain the nose of it is sealed up good.

 

[rumatt]

Well I thought I would update this thread. I decided to give the same dealer the chance to make it right. They ended up having my saw a total of 12 weeks. The original 4 weeks, then another 8 weeks after I returned it.

They ended up replacing the solenoid, intake boot and flange, and the decomp valve, based on air leaks they kept finding. That fixed all the leaks but it still stalled when hot. They replaced the carb and that seems to have done the trick. It runs fine now.

The majority of the time they had it they would say, "We're waiting on parts from Stihl." I even contacted Stihl to find out if they were BS-ing me, and they were not. The carb was taking so long to come in my dealer ordered a new 241cm and used its carb to get me my saw back.

I still like this saw, but this was an overall terrible overall story for Stihl.

1. A new saw had all sorts of problems
2. The repair took way too long
3. A big chunk of the time was waiting on parts from Stihl.

Oh well.

 

[RI Chevy]

They should have given you the new saw and bought yours back.
Keep making calls to Stihl and complain. That's unacceptable.
Sorry to hear if your troubles.

 

[MustangMike]

Glad it worked out in the end. They should have loaned you a saw in the interim. Based on my Brother's experience, I believe you will like that saw.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

I sure hope this has cured the problem. For the price they charge, it should run like a Swiss watch!

 

[chipper1]

I sure hope this has cured the problem. For the price they charge, it should run like a Swiss watch!

Mine does, but a very loud one lol.

 

[MustangMike]

They cut wood much better than a Swiss Watch!

 

[chipper1]

They cut wood much better than a Swiss Watch!

And since theres not a Swedish watch in that size that's newer I have the 241 .

Edit; that I like.

 

[00wyk]

I had both problems with my 241. Bad throttle lag/dying during idle, and then lately it started to run richer and richer and richer until the plug was fouled, and this after getting the carb replaced out of warranty, and resetting it often. I gave the saw to a friend of mine after making sure he knew it was cursed. I just got tired of it.

 

[00wyk]

And since theres not a Swedish watch in that size that's newer I have the 241 .

Edit; that I like.

I was looking at alternatives and actually ended up replacing it with an Echo 360WES(had my name in it anyways, so why not). I have a dealers account with a large supplier in the UK, and I got it for less than half what a 241 is. No, not quite as powerful, but weighs 2 lbs less and gets the job done. But another alternative which was very tempting was the 50cc offer from Echo. No electric carb, and 10cc bigger...but what caught my eye the most was the weight.

 

[Kenskip1]

Well, if you through enough new parts at it eventually something will fix it. Sounds like there mechanic does not know his azz from his femor.I am glad that you finally got it back.

 

[chipper1]

I was looking at alternatives and actually ended up replacing it with an Echo 360WES(had my name in it anyways, so why not). I have a dealers account with a large supplier in the UK, and I got it for less than half what a 241 is. No, not quite as powerful, but weighs 2 lbs less and gets the job done. But another alternative which was very tempting was the 50cc offer from Echo. No electric carb, and 10cc bigger...but what caught my eye the most was the weight.

Which echo is that in the picture.
The Makita 4300 is a great alternative, I like mine.

 

[Kenskip1]

Echo,is my choice of saws now.I have a new CS 550P. This was a discontinued model and was thinking about it. For about 30 seconds.Best new saw that I have owned. I am sure that there are members that will stick like epoxy to their favorite brand.This is a good thing.I should mention that I also have a new CS 490P.My go to saw. I've said my piece.Thanks for listening, Ken

 

[rumatt]

I was looking at alternatives and actually ended up replacing it with an Echo 360WES(had my name in it anyways, so why not).

What do you think of the 360 Echo? How's it compare to the 241 for smaller work?

I've been eyeing the Echo 361P. Or the 2511T. Tempting. I do like the 241 but the weight savings over my 261 are pretty small.

 

[00wyk]

Which echo is that in the picture.
The Makita 4300 is a great alternative, I like mine.

That's an early 500P.