High Quality Chainsaw Bars Husqvarna Toys

Massey Ferguson MF-300

jakethesnake

I Am The Snake
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
786
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
18,372
Location
Here & Now
Country flag
You roastin hot dogs there ? I've had fair luck fillin them holes up with blaster. May be worth a try after you heat er up a few times. In stuck yet?
 

jakethesnake

I Am The Snake
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
786
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
18,372
Location
Here & Now
Country flag
Can't get that particular sleeve to budge either? Saving the sleeves if possible
 

jakethesnake

I Am The Snake
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
786
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
18,372
Location
Here & Now
Country flag
I'd agree w your method I've never tried ATF but had less stuck ones and filled the cylinder w pb blaster
 

Mastermind

Chief Cat Herder
Staff member
GoldMember
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
4
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
47,984
Reaction score
311,505
Location
Banner Springs Tennessee
Country flag
Can't get that particular sleeve to budge either? Saving the sleeves if possible

I'm not trying to save the sleeves or the pistons. I'm gonna completely rebuild this engine. I just wanna get it apart so I can clean it up and install new cam bearings.
 

dieselfitter

Pinnacle OPE Member
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
266
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
474
Reaction score
2,660
Location
MN
Country flag
Randy, Perkins used only one cam bushing. The front cam journal rides on a bushing. the back three journals ride directly on the cast iron block. Some very early 4.236 used no bushing.
When removing original liners I've noticed it takes over 30 ton to get them moving. The original liners are press fit, finish bored and honed in place("en situ" as the service manual states). If it has been rebuilt, it likely has slip fit service liners which will come out much easier.
In the O/H kits, Service liners(slip fit, pre finished...) are supplied. It's a common mistake is to use them. There are three different designs of liners Perkins used throughout the production life of the 4.236. Of those three designs, there are 2-5 options of each(over sized, finished, unfinished, chrome...).
From the picture of the piston roast, it looks like you have the 1st or 2nd design. If you have 1st design, update to 2nd design p#31358394 for the finished liner, 31358393 for unfinished. Double check the p#'s, sometimes my memory fails me.
Back to the common mistake. After you press out the liners, check the liner parent bores in the block. After many years of thermal cycling, they can grow and be out of round. The service liner calls for .001" clearance to .001" interference("transition fit"). If you are handing it over to your local machine shop, make damn sure your he checks it. I have seen more than one guy screwed by his local machine shop when he failed to check the parent bore and address the bores condition. Failure of this will score pistons within hours repeatedly until rectified. Every block I ever checked the parent bores, was borderline bad. I pressed in the unfinished liner which is a press fit instead of a slip fit. Then had the unfinished liner bored and honed to size. That way I slept well at night knowing that hole was round and true.
If you want, post a pic of a liner after it is pressed out and I'll identify it.
 

Mastermind

Chief Cat Herder
Staff member
GoldMember
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
4
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
47,984
Reaction score
311,505
Location
Banner Springs Tennessee
Country flag
Thanks for the help Tim. I plan to remove the old liners, check and clean up the parent bores myself. Then I will see about having the unfinished press in liners installed and finished to the correct bore size. Does that sound like a good plan?
 

jakethesnake

I Am The Snake
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
786
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
18,372
Location
Here & Now
Country flag
I'm not trying to save the sleeves or the pistons. I'm gonna completely rebuild this engine. I just wanna get it apart so I can clean it up and install new cam bearings.
I had figured that wasn't sure if you could just press the whole business piston n all out? Just trying to throw some ideas around. That helps me I've broken some diesels down . Not lots but some The reason I had asked bout the sleeves is if possible you could get a torch in there and direct some heat on the piston itself instead of a fire above the piston . It's a thought she'll unstick one way or another good luck there
 

huskihl

Muh fingers look really big
GoldMember
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
360
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
22,541
Reaction score
143,453
Location
East Jordan, MI
Country flag
Randy, Perkins used only one cam bushing. The front cam journal rides on a bushing. the back three journals ride directly on the cast iron block. Some very early 4.236 used no bushing.
When removing original liners I've noticed it takes over 30 ton to get them moving. The original liners are press fit, finish bored and honed in place("en situ" as the service manual states). If it has been rebuilt, it likely has slip fit service liners which will come out much easier.
In the O/H kits, Service liners(slip fit, pre finished...) are supplied. It's a common mistake is to use them. There are three different designs of liners Perkins used throughout the production life of the 4.236. Of those three designs, there are 2-5 options of each(over sized, finished, unfinished, chrome...).
From the picture of the piston roast, it looks like you have the 1st or 2nd design. If you have 1st design, update to 2nd design p#31358394 for the finished liner, 31358393 for unfinished. Double check the p#'s, sometimes my memory fails me.
Back to the common mistake. After you press out the liners, check the liner parent bores in the block. After many years of thermal cycling, they can grow and be out of round. The service liner calls for .001" clearance to .001" interference("transition fit"). If you are handing it over to your local machine shop, make damn sure your he checks it. I have seen more than one guy screwed by his local machine shop when he failed to check the parent bore and address the bores condition. Failure of this will score pistons within hours repeatedly until rectified. Every block I ever checked the parent bores, was borderline bad. I pressed in the unfinished liner which is a press fit instead of a slip fit. Then had the unfinished liner bored and honed to size. That way I slept well at night knowing that hole was round and true.
If you want, post a pic of a liner after it is pressed out and I'll identify it.
Nice reply!. You shall now be known as the "definitive dieselfitter".:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

czar800

Mastermind Approved!
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
533
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
7,160
Reaction score
37,440
Location
Ellwood City
Country flag
I mean no harm..... I've never had my hands in a Perkins before, but I enjoy watching.
 

Mastermind

Chief Cat Herder
Staff member
GoldMember
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
4
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
47,984
Reaction score
311,505
Location
Banner Springs Tennessee
Country flag
I mean no harm..... I've never had my hands in a Perkins before, but I enjoy watching.

Same here.

Looks like the crank is NOT coming out today. My son in law.......y'all remember Jon.....said he would be over this morning. He did not show up. I'm not really up to straining on this thing just yet. I will wait for help.
 

dieselfitter

Pinnacle OPE Member
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
266
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
474
Reaction score
2,660
Location
MN
Country flag
This what your unfinished # found in a google search.

31358393 is the correct number for an unfinished press fit liner, 2nd design, flanged with fire ring.
Don't worry about it for now. Once yours are removed, we will positively identify what you have and I'll recommend a supplier.
Guys have used a stick welder to help remove the liner. Weld a bead inside the bore from top to bottom, let cool and tap it out. The weld shrinks the liner. I am not brave enough to try it. I would screw up, my weld would penetrate and weld the liner to the block.
 

Mastermind

Chief Cat Herder
Staff member
GoldMember
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
4
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
47,984
Reaction score
311,505
Location
Banner Springs Tennessee
Country flag
31358393 is the correct number for an unfinished press fit liner, 2nd design, flanged with fire ring.
Don't worry about it for now. Once yours are removed, we will positively identify what you have and I'll recommend a supplier.
Guys have used a stick welder to help remove the liner. Weld a bead inside the bore from top to bottom, let cool and tap it out. The weld shrinks the liner. I am not brave enough to try it. I would screw up, my weld would penetrate and weld the liner to the block.

I remember that trick from school, and I remember them using a torch the heat the liner and shrink it. I'll get em out......no worries.
 

jakethesnake

I Am The Snake
Local time
6:06 AM
User ID
786
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
18,372
Location
Here & Now
Country flag
31358393 is the correct number for an unfinished press fit liner, 2nd design, flanged with fire ring.
Don't worry about it for now. Once yours are removed, we will positively identify what you have and I'll recommend a supplier.
Guys have used a stick welder to help remove the liner. Weld a bead inside the bore from top to bottom, let cool and tap it out. The weld shrinks the liner. I am not brave enough to try it. I would screw up, my weld would penetrate and weld the liner to the block.
Yes sir that's also a good way to get a stuck bearing race
 

Mastermind

Chief Cat Herder
Staff member
GoldMember
Local time
5:06 AM
User ID
4
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
47,984
Reaction score
311,505
Location
Banner Springs Tennessee
Country flag
Thanks to my grandson helping me today, the engine is apart. The pistons were real *b-wordes to get out, but we got them out without damage. The tappets and cam have some rust, but I have another set. Next Sunday El Bubba and I will take the other engine apart and see what parts we need for the rebuild.
 
Top