What to look out for on the 440 kit?

[slackinoff]

@MustangMike - I understand what you mean, I am going to pick some up to try. I like the idea of not worrying about overhanging sealant inside the cylinder

I got the saw partially disassembled on my lunch break. I can see the exhaust is still leaking between the heat shield and cylinder....not sure if I should grab an oem shield, or use a gasket (ipl does not show a gasket between the cylinder and shield, which is weird to me, but I am sure I could figure a way to get it mounted with one) or use a thin layer of silicone on the cylinder exhaust port as a gasket. Not sure if anyone has had this issue as well?

 

[LoneOak]

@slackinoff,

I live in Cleveland. If you need a hand, feel free to ask!! I keep extras on hand and don't mind helping a guy out!

 

[Maintenance Chief]

I use gaskets between the shield.

 

[slackinoff]

@LoneOak Oh cool! I live in Nacogdoches.

@Maintenance Chief - thank you for the direction to go on that.

Aight, so I got the saw cleaned up and tore down. Rings measured .010, originally measured at .009 when first put together.

FT base gasket measures .025 on outer edge then then steps down to .020 on inner edge. I didn't look close enough to see if it seals on the thicker portion or the inner thinner portion. I was expecting it to be .015 so that's good, should be able to get squish closer to .020 - .025 ( with gasket squish was .045 to .065)

Concerned about a couple of spot where the plating chipped off. It looks worse in a picture for sure. You can't catch a fingernail in it. I'm thinking it's not a big deal? I'd really like to run the FT setup for now.

Pics below.

 

[slackinoff]

Pics came out reverse order. Weird marks on top of piston are from squish test before removing.

Here are the two chips in the plating. Two angles of one chip, two chips total if that makes sense. There are some marks where I slipped chamfering the ports but the cylinder is smooth all over, even the chips. Which I'm sort of thinking might have been caused by my chamfering? Idk, the plating is pretty thin.

Anyway, if yall think I should abandon ship and throw on a meteor P&C, I will....I just kind of wanted this to work.

 

[LoneOak]

Not chipping, that is shoddy casting. Those areas are low spots that didn't get ground in the honing process. My cylinder bore looks very similar to yours!!

 

[slackinoff]

@LoneOak - you are exactly right. I found a pic of when I received the kit, before I chamfered. I didn't notice it before, it's darker now and easier to see.

 

[LoneOak]

Let me know if you need some exhaust gaskets, I have plenty and I can bring them to you.
Like @Maintenance Chief suggested, sandwich the plate between gaskets.
My kit only came with one gasket as well.

 

[slackinoff]

@LoneOak Pm Sent

 

[slackinoff]

- Update

These saws are so easy and fun to work on. I just finished the base gasket delete. After you get the tank/handle on it's a breeze.

@MustangMike the 518 went on much cleaner than my motoseal ans easier to work with, thanks for the tip.

Squish ened up between .0195 and .020. I definitely had to use my thinner solder to measure this time.

Compression is up from 125-130 to a bit over 150! The saw is definitely is harder to pull over and hangs from its rope much better. I actually re installed the compression release.

That's all I got, waiting for an extra exhaust gasket to arrive on Friday to install exhaust, which is good, I would have been tempted to fire it up!

 

[MustangMike]

I think you will like how it runs much better. Have you advanced the timing?

 

[slackinoff]

@MustangMike - I have not advanced the ignition timing, yet. Haven't done much reading on it but I probably will after I run the saw with the adjusted squish.

The 460 muffler is arriving early, sometime today. I wanted to ask everyone what the thoughts are on the heat reflective tape under the exhaust. My kit did not come with any, but I do have some flame resistant aluminum tape I can put down. The 460 muffler is probably going to be hotter than the FT open muffler. Wondering if I should install tape.

 

[MustangMike]

I never bother with it, but then again, I always open up the mufflers a bit. It only came on the newer saws after they restricted the muffler.

The old 044s had a much larger opening than the newer 460s.

If you do a timing advance, it would work best with a muffler that has been opened up.

Randy (Mastermind) had a MS 461 build thread years ago that demonstrated how to advance the timing.

Generally, you file .020 - .025 off the right hand portion of the key that is not in the crank slot, then make sure the flywheel is pressed against it before you tighten it. The key does not keep the flywheel in place, it is just a "locater". The friction against the crank, when you tighten the nut, keeps it in place. (The full key is usually .078, and will shear easily if the crank nut is not tight enough).

 

[slackinoff]

@MustangMike - Thanks for the info, I will look into it!

460 muffler showed up in better shape than I was expecting. The exhaust port is small no doubt! It does have a slit in it as well that is behind the spark arrestor that I could open up. If I open this up a bit it's going to all be behind the spark arrestor, I don't like the idea of debris flying back into the can. That's one of the reasons I didn't just put a single port cover on the FT muffler.

Excuse my sharpie marks, I was playing around with how to open it up a touch, if I decide to after running it like it is.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

@MustangMike - Thanks for the info, I will look into it!

460 muffler showed up in better shape than I was expecting. The exhaust port is small no doubt! It does have a slit in it as well that is behind the spark arrestor that I could open up. If I open this up a bit it's going to all be behind the spark arrestor, I don't like the idea of debris flying back into the can. That's one of the reasons I didn't just put a single port cover on the FT muffler.

Excuse my sharpie marks, I was playing around with how to open it up a touch, if I decide to after running it like it is.

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. I was looking for a genuine OEM DP for my Stihl OEM 440 saw and there was a whole thread on hearth.com 2013 that shows the Canadian/Australian Stihl OEM that was used on 460 over there and I assume 440 too. It gave Stihl parts numbers. You can Google it. At least you can see the OEM Stihl set up...

 

[StihlMagnum440]

@MustangMike - Thanks for the info, I will look into it!

460 muffler showed up in better shape than I was expecting. The exhaust port is small no doubt! It does have a slit in it as well that is behind the spark arrestor that I could open up. If I open this up a bit it's going to all be behind the spark arrestor, I don't like the idea of debris flying back into the can. That's one of the reasons I didn't just put a single port cover on the FT muffler.

Excuse my sharpie marks, I was playing around with how to open it up a touch, if I decide to after running it like it is.

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[StihlMagnum440]

Also, MustangMike mentioned the carb prefilter with FT kit is restrictive and that is an understatement...my stock OEM prefilter allows you to blow air through it easily but the one with FT kit is way harder. I would not use the FT prefilter even on a stock set up let alone one you are opening up muffler on. I use the winter filter like, once again MustangMike said too. If you put a Stihl.OEM prefilter on the stretch portion goes on the bottom center. I like the prefilter because very easy to take off and clean. I put a smidging of grease where the main filter goes up against cover to make sure that is sealed and it catches a lot of fine dust and when I pull filter off the grease catches fine dust etc that always falls off filter when you first pull it out. The grease makes it easier to clean around the base afterwards without toms of dust floating near and in your carb. Sometimes I used to think I put more dust in carb by cleaning filter than if I had left it alone.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Auto parts stores sell a starter heat shield, sticky back . I use it on top covers and under the muffler.

 

[slackinoff]

Update - saw sounds way different at idle. You can hear the ping of the exhaust pulse hitting the muffler cover better. Reminds me of my two stroke mx bikes at idle, that ping in the expansion chamber sound.

I think the squish improvement helped offset the muffler, saw seems just as snappy as before.

I used "flame proof" aluminum tape from harbor freight. Worked well, very sticky.

Oh and I used some moto seal on one side of each gasket and sandwiched it all together for an hour before install. Much easier than fumbling around with that many layers.

 

[StihlMagnum440]

Update - saw sounds way different at idle. You can hear the ping of the exhaust pulse hitting the muffler cover better. Reminds me of my two stroke mx bikes at idle, that ping in the expansion chamber sound.

I think the squish improvement helped offset the muffler, saw seems just as snappy as before.

I used "flame proof" aluminum tape from harbor freight. Worked well, very sticky.

Oh and I used some moto seal on one side of each gasket and sandwiched it all together for an hour before install. Much easier than fumbling around with that many layers.

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Loud. Stihl makes a cover for some saws for the starter air inlets for winter to keep snow out. In cold weather a stock muffler making heat may be a good thing. Stihl did not make the mufflers just to retain heat and burn gases for emissions...they also built restrictive mufflers for reduced noise. I got the oak tree, which is the nearest to the neighbor all cut and cleaned up while making the least amount of noise as possible.
I tried limbing with my little Stihl 192.. it was too cold and carb was freezing up. Doubt a starter cover would have helped. Project looks great.