What oil is best? and what ratio?

[Ron660]

It did wipe fairly clean but thats what was left over in the picture and it was hard. Say or believe what u want im telling u 800t will build carbon . Ill say it probably builds the least of any oil Ive used but loaded like with milling or bigger firewood, tuned properly ,and the engine getting to temperature it will build carbon. The 3 oils ive seen that build faster than others are Klotz Super , R2, and HP2. I havent used an oil yet that didnt produce carbon

Yes. That's all I'm saying....it's the cleanest burning.

 

[jmssaws]

I seriously doubt there will be a noticeable difference in HP comparing oils. If you wanted to compare oils on a dyno, you'd need to use the same saw to limit variables.

Yeh I know,I just want to run saws on a dyno.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Yeh I know,I just want to run saws on a dyno.

Lol! I figured it was more than oil!!! Lol!!

 

[Ron660]

View attachment 14781

Thanks for the pics. I guessed right.

 

[Ron660]

Is this good?

View attachment 14779 View attachment 14780

Mike and Keith would think it looks perfect.

 

[skidooguy]

I thought the best oil was whatever dyed the gas the prettiest color? Lol

 

[Mastermind]

I thought the best oil was whatever dyed the gas the prettiest color? Lol

And why I love 2R.

It's purple like the big bruise next to my nut sack.

 

[skidooguy]

It's a toss up between royal purple and 2r with me. Haha.

 

[jmssaws]

Supertech from Walmart has to be the brightest mixed. Looks like smurf piss

 

[Redbull661]

emailed andrew a question I thought up. Thought it was interesting so passing it on.

Redbull writes -

Hey man. How is everything going dude? Me busy busy kids work etc etc. Ok so I Thought of another question topic…

Should I be concerned with the fact that saws seem to be pushing more RPM than bikes?

Does that much more RPM cause breakdown of some sort? Maybe viscosity breakdown? Is that a term?

I’m guessing it comes down to quality and formulation of the oil to be able to deal with the high RPM? Guessing NOT ratio otherwise Stihl wouldn’t be recommending 50:1.
Thanks man!

-------------------

andrew writes -

Things are good. Busy myself with all that jazz too.


Viscosity breakdown is in fact a term and is usually attributed to viscosity shear. This is when polymer components of the oil are literally sheared into pieces which decreases their size, and subsequently their viscosity. High RPMs can cause more shear, but in two- strokes this isn’t such a big deal because the oil is consumed and replenished at a fast enough rate that shear down is minimal during its life cycle in the engine. What high RPM does do is typically it will increase your burn rate, so we often recommend a higher oil ratio like 32:1 or 25:1 in very high RPM applications like between 16k – 20k RPM. At 10k-12k like in the saws normal ratios like 42:1 and 50:1 aren’t a big leap of faith. The oil properties play a bigger role in the ratio than a lot of other factors. A thicker oil that burns more slowly, will require less oil mixed in in most cases. But, as RPM increase, that burn rate increases and that burn rate increase may not be proportional to the increase in oil just from increased RPMs.


For instance, if you went from 6k RPM to 12k RPM, you would be putting a 100% more oil in that same minute, but the burn rate may only be increasing by 75%, so you would want to lean out your oil ratio. So if you had been running at 25:1, you’d want to lean it to 42:1 to balance your oil throughput. These numbers are all totally made-up and I have no idea how doubling your RPM would affect your burn rate, but I think you get the idea now. So Stihl’s 50:1 recommendation with the right oil, will be correct for their set-up, but changing that original set-up or changing oils may require an adjustment to that ratio to optimize.


As always, if you have any other questions, you know where to find me.


With regards,

Andrew

 

[Redfin]

I thought the best oil was whatever dyed the gas the prettiest color? Lol

Dont run K2 if thats the case.

 

[skidooguy]

Yea I used to run maxima castor 927 and I quit using it in bikes due to lack of dye. A guy I know straight gassed a brand new ms361 first tank of fuel in it. He thought he had put oil in his dirtbike can and he hadn't. He runs super M

 

[Mastermind]

emailed andrew a question I thought up. Thought it was interesting so passing it on.

Redbull writes -

Hey man. How is everything going dude? Me busy busy kids work etc etc. Ok so I Thought of another question topic…

Should I be concerned with the fact that saws seem to be pushing more RPM than bikes?

Does that much more RPM cause breakdown of some sort? Maybe viscosity breakdown? Is that a term?

I’m guessing it comes down to quality and formulation of the oil to be able to deal with the high RPM? Guessing NOT ratio otherwise Stihl wouldn’t be recommending 50:1.
Thanks man!

-------------------

andrew writes -

Things are good. Busy myself with all that jazz too.


Viscosity breakdown is in fact a term and is usually attributed to viscosity shear. This is when polymer components of the oil are literally sheared into pieces which decreases their size, and subsequently their viscosity. High RPMs can cause more shear, but in two- strokes this isn’t such a big deal because the oil is consumed and replenished at a fast enough rate that shear down is minimal during its life cycle in the engine. What high RPM does do is typically it will increase your burn rate, so we often recommend a higher oil ratio like 32:1 or 25:1 in very high RPM applications like between 16k – 20k RPM. At 10k-12k like in the saws normal ratios like 42:1 and 50:1 aren’t a big leap of faith. The oil properties play a bigger role in the ratio than a lot of other factors. A thicker oil that burns more slowly, will require less oil mixed in in most cases. But, as RPM increase, that burn rate increases and that burn rate increase may not be proportional to the increase in oil just from increased RPMs.


For instance, if you went from 6k RPM to 12k RPM, you would be putting a 100% more oil in that same minute, but the burn rate may only be increasing by 75%, so you would want to lean out your oil ratio. So if you had been running at 25:1, you’d want to lean it to 42:1 to balance your oil throughput. These numbers are all totally made-up and I have no idea how doubling your RPM would affect your burn rate, but I think you get the idea now. So Stihl’s 50:1 recommendation with the right oil, will be correct for their set-up, but changing that original set-up or changing oils may require an adjustment to that ratio to optimize.


As always, if you have any other questions, you know where to find me.


With regards,

Andrew

Ask him what he thinks about Amsoil @ 100:1

 

[Keith Gandy]

No I dont. Thats excessive but u have had Mike , Randy, and Jason all tell u black carbon on top of the piston is normal and what u want. What more can u ask for?

 

[Ron660]

Since performance and protection are two different measurements, I'll take more protection (racing oil plus a richer tune) since I'm only cutting firewood and trying to maximize the life of my saws.
Redbull I really enjoy your tests. I'd love to see an oil comparison in your ported 661 with Klotz tech, 800 off-road, Dumonde, and 2R. Not for internal cleanliness but for speed. That would tell us if one or more isn't combusting properly. I'd be willing to furnish some oil.

 

[big t double]

It's purple like the big bruise next to my nut sack.

um....is it weird to ask for pics?

 

[Ron660]

No I dont. Thats excessive but u have had Mike , Randy, and Jason all tell u black carbon on top of the piston is normal and what u want. What more can u ask for?

I never said a piston crown has to look new using any oil. I only said my pistons were spotless and 800 was the cleanest I've used. Along with great lubrication. Assumptions and reality are two different things.

 

[Ron660]

I did agree that I was tuned a little rich but I have no inclination to tune my 660 over 14K for cutting 25" red oak. My mastermind 372, awesome by the way, is super rich at 14280 last I checked. I'll probably turn the "H" clockwise on it a little but not my 660.

 

[Mastermind]

um....is it weird to ask for pics?

Yeah.......it sorta is.

When I dropped my pants for the doctor........he said "Yuck........that's ugly".

 

[big t double]

Yeah.......it sorta is.

When I dropped my pants for the doctor........he said "Yuck........that's ugly".

well that's a little harsh on the ol ego huh?