What oil is best? and what ratio?

[unionvillecountryboy]

THIS!....

So.... I asked for a recommendation haha. I just hate paying for stihl synthetic. My 661 is at Randy's and I was just looking for some common top runners I can look for locally and compare.

 

[mdavlee]

So.... I asked for a recommendation haha. I just hate paying for stihl synthetic. My 661 is at Randy's and I was just looking for some common top runners I can look for locally and compare.

Yamalube 2R, maxima K2, and amsoil saber are 3 good ones

 

[RI Chevy]

I would run whatever oil Randy suggests. [emoji106]

 

[bwalker]

So.... I asked for a recommendation haha. I just hate paying for stihl synthetic. My 661 is at Randy's and I was just looking for some common top runners I can look for locally and compare.

Randy likes 2R. Its great oil.

 

[Farmchuck]

I would run whatever oil Randy suggests. [emoji106][/QUOTE
Now witch one is 2r? To many names & numbers for my limited brain sells 2 keep track of.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Shindaiwa Red Armor followed suit with Echo on the new formula also
829626.pdf

 

[andyshine77]

They do it pretty much in one tank on the intake side like the 372 xtorq

I assumed something like that.

 

[bwalker]

Just thinking a bit differently here. Is it possible for different brand saws to run better or worse on different oils? For example, if Husqvarna runs good on RA, but RA doesn't run well with Dolmar?
Please don't get upset, I just used the analogy for an example.
I like all the saws!!!! [emoji106]

So engines by the nature of their porting just run dirty. Good oil can help, but not eliminate the problem. Stihl 440, 260,360 for example run dirtier than a 372 or 346 XP OE's. Honda cr500 will burn any oil clean while cr250 wont. Just about all KTM's burn oretty dirty due to crapp y carrb tuning.

 

[andyshine77]

show pictures of what your referring to.

I would, but you see this is a crazy 650 page thread lol. Pretty much every time you had a 661 apart I thought the cylinder and piston didn't look like they were all that happy. It almost like the saw is sucking in contaminants. Maybe the piston is expanding too much. Maybe I'm just seeing things.

 

[unionvillecountryboy]

Randy likes 2R. Its great oil.

Yamalube?

Suppose I could have just asked him. So I'll look into yamalube and maxima k2. At one point I thought I caught a thread randy was on BelRay, not sure the designation.

 

[RI Chevy]

So engines by the nature of their porting just run dirty. Good oil can help, but not eliminate the problem. Stihl 440, 260,360 for example run dirtier than a 372 or 346 XP OE's. Honda cr500 will burn any oil clean while cr250 wont. Just about all KTM's burn oretty dirty due to crapp y carrb tuning.

Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks.

 

[andyshine77]

show pictures of what your referring to.

It may or may not cause issues later on, but I know I don't care for it much.

 

[Derf]

Tcw3 oils are ashless and do not use calcium or other mettalic based detergents. Rather, they use a ashless, nitrogen base dispersent. These dispersents do not function at the ring belt temps an air cooled engine runs at. And that is why the OEM so not to use tcw3 oils.

I tried Lucas
Tried sooo hard to like it too
It sucks !
Dry, dry, dry inside, even at 25:1
Left one saw sitting for 3 weeks and found the piston corroding where it sat in the exhaust port.

I’m using the rest of what I have as assembly lube. I actually gave away 2 gallons of the crapView attachment 106253 View attachment 106251View attachment 106252

I actually squirted mix into the port just so I didn’t pull the cylinder off while it was bone dry

I've done take downs after running 36" 404 on 661's for generally 8-15 tanks on the following oils:

red armor x 2
honda hp2 x 3
mobil 1 x 3
Belray Si-7
Amsoil saber
Klotz original techniplate x 2
Klotz super techniplate
Belray H1R
Schaeffers 7000 x 3
Schaeffers 9000 x 2
Dumonde
Yamalube 2R
Motul 800

IMO Nothing has been cleaner than schaeffers.

I've seen the inside of scott's 440 and 64/66. The 440 has over 1000 gallons of gas (schaeffers 7000 32:1). And it still looks cleaner inside then any of the others mentioned above after only a couple of gallons of gas.

You can talk smell, cost, color, msds, theories all day long. But the 7000 is the cleanest. It's thin so yeah I'd run 32:1.

If you want I will start PM'ing you pictures of every take down I have done.

All that said I still feel the best way to determine the best out is to do the oil test I want to do.

Does cleanest equal the best? Maybe, maybe not so much.

I'm still using K2.[emoji16] I see little wear with ester rich oils, this is what I want in the oil I run.

Wear is my question too. It be interesting to see the results regarding a tcw3 oil compared to a fd rated oil back to back and see what one wears more.

I started with Husky XP oil. I’ve been running the Lucas FD 2-cycle oil in my saws the last 3 years. Only one is a modern auto-tune saw. So far (knock on wood), no problems. But when I look at the insides, they are getting black build up, and they do seem dry.
I have some Amsoil Saber, but don’t trust their 100:1 ratio suggestion.
I would like to have something that actually keeps the inside clean, and keeps a saw running for years, so I’m going to seriously consider the Schaeffer’s 7000 based on Scott’s advice. Even though it’s rated for water cooled engines and Ben just explained why that isn’t ideal for air cooled OPE.

I do wonder if it would be weird to blend my own oil? With some Schaeffers 7000 for its cleaning ability, and some K2, Motul 8000, or Yamalube for the ester oil protection.

 

[RI Chevy]

I generally run a 36:1 oil cocktail Fred. Get the best of all of them. Lol

 

[Farmchuck]

I started with Husky XP oil. I’ve been running the Lucas FD 2-cycle oil in my saws the last 3 years. Only one is a modern auto-tune saw. So far (knock on wood), no problems. But when I look at the insides, they are getting black build up, and they do seem dry.
I have some Amsoil Saber, but don’t trust their 100:1 ratio suggestion.
I would like to have something that actually keeps the inside clean, and keeps a saw running for years, so I’m going to seriously consider the Schaeffer’s 7000 based on Scott’s advice. Even though it’s rated for water cooled engines and Ben just explained why that isn’t ideal for air cooled OPE.

I do wonder if it would be weird to blend my own oil? With some Schaeffers 7000 for its cleaning ability, and some K2, Motul 8000, or Yamalube for the ester oil protection.

Could the benefits of one cancel out the benefits of another if they were mixed?

 

[andyshine77]

I started with Husky XP oil. I’ve been running the Lucas FD 2-cycle oil in my saws the last 3 years. Only one is a modern auto-tune saw. So far (knock on wood), no problems. But when I look at the insides, they are getting black build up, and they do seem dry.
I have some Amsoil Saber, but don’t trust their 100:1 ratio suggestion.
I would like to have something that actually keeps the inside clean, and keeps a saw running for years, so I’m going to seriously consider the Schaeffer’s 7000 based on Scott’s advice. Even though it’s rated for water cooled engines and Ben just explained why that isn’t ideal for air cooled OPE.

I do wonder if it would be weird to blend my own oil? With some Schaeffers 7000 for its cleaning ability, and some K2, Motul 8000, or Yamalube for the ester oil protection.

This is why I like K2 IMHO it's a good balance. A good thinner ester oil that often gets over looked it Motul 710. I ran a bunch of it in my 4-mix equipment and it did well at 50:1. I also ran some Yamalube in the 4mix stuff at 50:1 and I didn't care for how it ran, and things looked too dry. Ultra still preforms great in the 4-mix application for whatever that's worth.

 

[Code_Red]

Fellows the viscosity on both the 7000 and 9000 Schaffers is 4.1 just to let yall know

I have no dog in this fight and I use whatever randy tells me to use so don't flame me for this but im just passing along information that I have. I had a decently long conversation with the schaeffer rep a while back and I don't remember it word for word but I specifically asked him why it would be ok to run the 7000 in my saw when it has a viscosity that low compared to others that are 9 - 22 and his response was that the temperature at which schaeffer oil molecules break down is much higher than most other oils and higher than race engines generally reach ( 250 ish degrees keeps coming to mind ) and combined with the properties of the Moly in their formula ( something about it being attracted to metals at the molecular level and can withstand pressures of like 250k psi before it breaks its bond with the metal, giving it the ability to have a strong layer of protection in the cyliner and on the piston) , it allows it to keep everything extremely well lubricated and clean even at the viscosity as low as it has.

 

[andyshine77]

I have no dog in this fight and I use whatever randy tells me to use so don't flame me for this but im just passing along information that I have. I had a decently long conversation with the schaeffer rep a while back and I don't remember it word for word but I specifically asked him why it would be ok to run the 7000 in my saw when it has a viscosity that low compared to others that are 9 - 22 and his response was that the temperature at which schaeffer oil molecules break down is much higher than most other oils and higher than race engines generally reach ( 250 ish degrees keeps coming to mind ) and combined with the properties of the Moly in their formula, it allows it to keep everything extremely well lubricated and clean even at the viscosity as low as it has.

believe it or not molybdenum disulfide And Schaeffer's has come up numerous times on the oil forum, yes there's an oil forum. Moly was all the rage back in the 60's when base stocks were not where they are today, The debate on weather it's a good idea is still being debated. Most including myself think Moly is fine in this application and in the right formula. Moly is use in oils with lower end base oils, where zinc can't be used. Overall I think it's a good additive if done right. Now Ben will come in and tell me I'm wrong lol.

 

[Code_Red]

believe it or not molybdenum disulfide And Schaeffer's has come up numerous times on the oil forum, yes there's an oil forum. Moly was all the rage back in the 60's when base stocks were not where they are today, The debate on weather it's a good idea is still being debated. Most including myself think Moly is fine in this application and in the right formula. Moly is use in oils with lower end base oils, where zinc can't be used. Overall I think it's a good additive if done right. Now Ben will come in and tell me I'm wrong lol.

lol

I have been slow on night shift and have been able to read about 200 of the 640+ pages of this forum and have come to the conclusion that for the average user, this debate is way overthought. I can see where guys that go through gallons a day and make a living with their saw would want to be extremely picky with oil and mix but someone like myself should focus on putting whatever their builder recommended in their mix and then learn how to tune a carb and keep a chain sharp ( both of which I am trying to get better at) . Having the saw tuned well should help it last longer than "schaeffer or klotz or yamalube etc. Ben knows his S*** and tree monkey has more hours on a saw and building saws than I probably ever will. If they recommend something ill listen and go enjoy my saw.

regardless this thread has been extremely educational and i have enjoyed learning what I can.

 

[bwalker]

believe it or not molybdenum disulfide And Schaeffer's has come up numerous times on the oil forum, yes there's an oil forum. Moly was all the rage back in the 60's when base stocks were not where they are today, The debate on weather it's a good idea is still being debated. Most including myself think Moly is fine in this application and in the right formula. Moly is use in oils with lower end base oils, where zinc can't be used. Overall I think it's a good additive if done right. Now Ben will come in and tell me I'm wrong lol.

Schaefferd two cycle oils dont appear to contain moly, which isnt surprising.