What oil is best? and what ratio?

[Keith Gandy]

Personally I think Ben has been right about the higher viscosity oils arent what we need in a saw for complete combustion efficiency. Like the tech at Maxima told me 2 yrs ago that they designed k2 to burn more complete for a performance advantage at half the viscosity of the upper performance motorcycle oils. Also trying to get some of the higher viscosity oils to seperate from the fuel in the crankcase will leave u with no more protection in the crankcase than a thinner viscosity that will seperate easier?

 

[Ron660]

Personally I think Ben has been right about the higher viscosity oils arent what we need in a saw for complete combustion efficiency. Like the tech at Maxima told me 2 yrs ago that they designed k2 to burn more complete at half the viscosity of the upper performance motorcycle oils. Also getting some of the oil to seperate from the fuel in the crankcase will leave u with no more protection in the crankcase than a thinner viscosity that will seperate easier?

Maybe a comparison of R2 and high viscosity oils, like 800 off-road and Klotz, at 32:1 might give us an answer. Evaluate the top end and especially the lower end. Mike and Junkman, ever run R2 and check the lower end for lubrication?
Using R2 at 32:1 would be similar to using 800 off-road at 50:1 based on viscosity (film strength/protection).

 

[Keith Gandy]

Maybe a comparison of R2 and high viscosity oils, like 800 off-road and Klotz, at 32:1 might give us an answer. Evaluate the top end and especially the lower end. Mike and Junkman, ever run R2 and check the lower end for lubrication?
Using R2 at 32:1 would be similar to using 800 off-road at 50:1 based on viscosity (film strength/protection).

Redbull pretty much compared them except looking at the insides. I can tell u now though that comparing oils for milling and general firewood cutting and the tunes will be 2 different things. Milling would tell u the ultimate oil for protection in the most severe saws usage but wont be optimal for performance in a general firewood setting? Just my 2 cents

 

[Ron660]

Personally I think Ben has been right about the higher viscosity oils arent what we need in a saw for complete combustion efficiency. Like the tech at Maxima told me 2 yrs ago that they designed k2 to burn more complete for a performance advantage at half the viscosity of the upper performance motorcycle oils. Also trying to get some of the higher viscosity oils to seperate from the fuel in the crankcase will leave u with no more protection in the crankcase than a thinner viscosity that will seperate easier?

Maybe another comparison could be timed cuts using R2 vs R50 or another higher viscosity oil. Then you'd know if the higher viscosity oils are hindering performance. Best I remember in Redbull's test 800 was faster than H1R in his 661. I forgot if he tested R2.

 

[jake wells]

Belray was the worst. Motul 800 doesn't seem to slow them down as much but it makes a mess in a 550xp.

What about either motul or belray mixed at 50:1 would it leave a oil film?

 

[Ron660]

Redbull pretty much compared them except looking at the insides. I can tell u now though that comparing oils for milling and general firewood cutting and the tunes will be 2 different things. Milling would tell u the ultimate oil for protection in the most severe saws usage but wont be optimal for performance in a general firewood setting? Just my 2 cents

I'd say protection is my #1 criteria....longevity of my saws is more important than a second faster cut time. I try not to cut faster than I can think felling and bucking trees. Could be dangerous. Cutting cookies no big deal.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Maybe so but I know im staying away from the thick oils in mtronics at 32to1. Ill use r2 or maybe k2

 

[Ron660]

Maybe so but I know im staying away from the thick oils in mtronics at 32to1. Ill use r2 or maybe k2

I agree with the Mtronics statement. I think the larger saws, 70cc+, could benefit from higher viscosities especially the ported ones.

 

[jake wells]

i got some older equipment that can handle the higher viscosity oils fine and burns clean with no mess out of the exhaust but they run at a fixed rpm with a load.
im talking belray H1R mixed at 16:1 they only reason it is mixed at the ratio because it uses plain bronze bushing bearings instead of roller bearings.

 

[Keith Gandy]

i got some older equipment that can handle the higher viscosity oils fine and burns clean with no mess out of the exhaust but they run at a fixed rpm with a load.
im talking belray H1R mixed at 16:1 they only reason it is mixed at the ratio because it uses plain bronze bushing bearings instead of roller bearings.

Id bet H1r will protect as good as any but tunes oddly and left a sticky brown crap all over the piston

 

[mdavlee]

Here's the plug and a better piston shot. The plug was wiped off some before I thought to take a picture. Either the D chamber isn't burning as nice as a round chamber or this HP2 milling is plenty hot to burn it. There was no carbon crusted like that 3/4 gallon ago. The plug was also pretty clean and a light brown. I can see the wash from the transfers in it and that area is clean and a little wet. I did idle the saw 1-2 minutes after the last cut.

 

[mdavlee]

What about either motul or belray mixed at 50:1 would it leave a oil film?

I don't think you'd have a problem with the 800 at 50:1. The recommend up to 60:1 on that oil.

 

[jake wells]

i hereby challenge you to mill with this oil at 25:1

 

[Keith Gandy]

Do you think 87 octane will produce more engine heat than 93 helping with combustion of these high viscosity racing oils?

The temperature isnt what the octanes differentiate themselves on but that 87 is combusting quicker in the stroke to allow more of the oil to burn and the higher octane, (especially 110), will ignite later in the stroke and result in less time for the oil to combuste completely. The distalltion curve in 110 Im pretty sure is not correct for optimum oil seperation of the oil/fuel in the crankcase at our saws temperatures if I remember what Ben stated

 

[CR888]

I find it funny how many insist on running full synthetics but won't accept the problems that come due to synthetics inherent nature. A high temp jet turbine is about all I'd 'insist' on using a full synthetic oil. Anyone ever thought why chainsaw oem's have spec't mineral oil for many decades and still do? Its no suprise so many have tuning issues running heavy synthetic bike oils. Synthetics were never created for their lubricating properties, they were created for their resistance to break down under high temp applications as jet engines evolved and got much hotter. Stihl introduced Ultra for valves in four mix design. I'll go away now and yas can all get back to your favourite synthetics that yas all so desperately need.

 

[jake wells]

Here's the plug and a better piston shot. The plug was wiped off some before I thought to take a picture. Either the D chamber isn't burning as nice as a round chamber or this HP2 milling is plenty hot to burn it. There was no carbon crusted like that 3/4 gallon ago. The plug was also pretty clean and a light brown. I can see the wash from the transfers in it and that area is clean and a little wet. I did idle the saw 1-2 minutes after the last cut.
View attachment 3156 View attachment 3157

try a hotter plug while you at like a NGK BPM8Y

 

[mdavlee]

I have some denso plugs here I'm going to try too.

 

[jake wells]

denso plugs like to foul quicker than NGK but i only noticed that in 4 strokes.

 

[mdavlee]

I find it funny how many insist on running full synthetics but won't accept the problems that come due to synthetics inherent nature. A high temp jet turbine is about all I'd 'insist' on using a full synthetic oil. Anyone ever thought why chainsaw oem's have spec't mineral oil for many decades and still do? Its no suprise so many have tuning issues running heavy synthetic bike oils. Synthetics were never created for their lubricating properties, they were created for their resistance to break down under high temp applications as jet engines evolved and got much hotter. Stihl introduced Ultra for valves in four mix design. I'll go away now and yas can all get back to your favourite synthetics that yas all so desperately need.

What mineral oils are you using?

 

[Keith Gandy]

I find it funny how many insist on running full synthetics but won't accept the problems that come due to synthetics inherent nature. A high temp jet turbine is about all I'd 'insist' on using a full synthetic oil. Anyone ever thought why chainsaw oem's have spec't mineral oil for many decades and still do? Its no suprise so many have tuning issues running heavy synthetic bike oils. Synthetics were never created for their lubricating properties, they were created for their resistance to break down under high temp applications as jet engines evolved and got much hotter. Stihl introduced Ultra for valves in four mix design. I'll go away now and yas can all get back to your favourite synthetics that yas all so desperately need.

But when u port these saws wont they transform into a jet needing more protection??!!